ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: tyzbit on April 07, 2019, 08:06:53 AM
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I bought my Zero 3 weeks ago, and I noticed two things:
- I hear the brakes squeak occasionally, and the front hub does too in the right conditions
- The motor makes a cyclic whumping noise around 30mph that matches the RPMs and goes away below 20 and above 40
I mentioned both to the dealer and they repacked the grease on the seals for the front wheel, but basically cautioned me about the noise and said to bring it back in if it gets worse.
Has anyone else had experience with motor noises, and did they affect anything like how long the belt lasted?
edit: here's a recording of it https://instaud.io/3wuS (https://instaud.io/3wuS)
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Mine came noisy from the factory. The belt tension was over 100 kg. After setting it to 25 kg (using Krikit gauge) it became much quieter, presumably because the motor bearings are under less lateral force.
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Mine came noisy from the factory. The belt tension was over 100 kg. After setting it to 25 kg (using Krikit gauge) it became much quieter, presumably because the motor bearings are under less lateral force.
My tension is at 50kg. I bet if I adjust it, it'll "reset" how the belt contacts the motor. I'm just not sure that 50kg warrants adjusting.
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Adjusting belt tension is an easy procedure. I would recommend that you set the belt to the minimum specified tension and make sure you have it positioned on the rear sprocket so there is about a millimeter or so clearance between the belt and the outside shoulder of the sprocket.
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Mine came noisy from the factory. The belt tension was over 100 kg. After setting it to 25 kg (using Krikit gauge) it became much quieter, presumably because the motor bearings are under less lateral force.
My tension is at 50kg. I bet if I adjust it, it'll "reset" how the belt contacts the motor. I'm just not sure that 50kg warrants adjusting.
50 kg is too tight. 25 kg is just right and you will feel and hear the difference. Well worth the hassle imo.
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Mine came noisy from the factory. The belt tension was over 100 kg. After setting it to 25 kg (using Krikit gauge) it became much quieter, presumably because the motor bearings are under less lateral force.
My tension is at 50kg. I bet if I adjust it, it'll "reset" how the belt contacts the motor. I'm just not sure that 50kg warrants adjusting.
50 kg is too tight. 25 kg is just right and you will feel and hear the difference. Well worth the hassle imo.
Did you see the belt tension for the new SR/F model? I think it was something like 115kg. :o
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Did you see the belt tension for the new SR/F model? I think it was something like 115kg. :o
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I just looked at the sr/f owners manual and it says 51-102kg. Not sure why the wide margin.
For my 2017 dsr and everything else but the S model, it says about 25kg. I wonder if the sr/f has a longer belt so needs the extra tension.
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I just looked at the sr/f owners manual and it says 51-102kg. Not sure why the wide margin.
For my 2017 dsr and everything else but the S model, it says about 25kg. I wonder if the sr/f has a longer belt so needs the extra tension.
It's not "about 25kg", it's 25-76.5 kg for the new, improved "wide" belt that started in 2017. The previous "narrow" belt tension spec was 20-30 kg.
The SR/F has an even beefier belt, presumably because the torque is higher.
I'd agree with BamBam that it's probably best to keep the tension closer to the minimum. When I had my 2016 with the narrow belt, I had to adjust a couple of times a year to keep it within the range. I think even without the effects of wear, change in temperature caused it to fluctuate enough to need adjustment with the seasons.
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I just looked at the sr/f owners manual and it says 51-102kg. Not sure why the wide margin.
For my 2017 dsr and everything else but the S model, it says about 25kg. I wonder if the sr/f has a longer belt so needs the extra tension.
It's not "about 25kg", it's 25-76.5 kg for the new, improved "wide" belt that started in 2017. The previous "narrow" belt tension spec was 20-30 kg.
The SR/F has an even beefier belt, presumably because the torque is higher.
That might be good for transmitting power to the rear sprocket, but I wonder what impact it has on the life of the motor and wheel bearings? My 2018 S came from the factory with 75kg tension on the belt. So it appears that the people assembling the bikes feel that they need to set the tension at the high end of the specifications. I wonder why? Do they believe that the tension will decrease as the belt wears?
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I recently had the belt replaced on my 2017 FXS and now have a louder and deeper than normal whine, most noticeable at low rpms, when "taking off."
Is this also typically symptomatic of a belt tension issue as well? Thoughts appreciated.
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I recently had the belt replaced on my 2017 FXS and now have a louder and deeper than normal whine, most noticeable at low rpms, when "taking off."
Is this also typically symptomatic of a belt tension issue as well? Thoughts appreciated.
The best way to keep the belt noise at a minimum is to follow these 3 simple steps:
1) Keep belt tension at minimum spec range.
2) Adjust so 1mm gap between belt and sprocket shoulder.
3) Keep belt and pulleys/sprockets clean using soap and water. Dawn liquid dish detergent works well.
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I just looked at the sr/f owners manual and it says 51-102kg. Not sure why the wide margin.
For my 2017 dsr and everything else but the S model, it says about 25kg. I wonder if the sr/f has a longer belt so needs the extra tension.
It's not "about 25kg", it's 25-76.5 kg for the new, improved "wide" belt that started in 2017. The previous "narrow" belt tension spec was 20-30 kg.
The SR/F has an even beefier belt, presumably because the torque is higher.
That might be good for transmitting power to the rear sprocket, but I wonder what impact it has on the life of the motor and wheel bearings? My 2018 S came from the factory with 75kg tension on the belt. So it appears that the people assembling the bikes feel that they need to set the tension at the high end of the specifications. I wonder why? Do they believe that the tension will decrease as the belt wears?
I wouldn't assume that the tension at delivery is indicative of what anyone believes. My 2016 FXS, which should have had a maximum tension of 30 kg, was delivered with a tension that was off the scale on the krikit gauge (>70 kg). I assume that it's best to keep the belt tension as low as possible to extend the life of the motor and wheel bearings. I also assume that the minimum spec on the tension is to preclude ratcheting.
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Just following up on this after getting all the tools I needed to adjust the belt tension (I didn't even have crescent wrenches :P)
I adjusted the belt to ~30kg and the noise is gone; from what I can hear it sounds like there's still VERY faint harmonics at certain RPMs but it's a night and day difference.
Listen for yourself: https://instaud.io/3xlW (first is before it was fixed as I was coming home, the rest are after it was fixed from low or no speed.)
Thank you Curt, BamBam, alko and everyone else for guiding me in the right direction for an easy fix.
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So after adjusting my belt tension, I now have a squeak that manifests when at neutral acceleration and goes away when braking. Some videos:
Manually turning the wheel
https://youtu.be/OMHuo34q08Y
I get a good closeup of my brake pads here, and from what I can tell the inner pads have a little clearance and the outer pads have basically none.
Using the motor
https://youtu.be/sHxwp10rS78
Notice the hub; it oscillates up and down as the wheel turns - is this an indication that my wheel is unbalanced/off-center? It seems to stay in rhythm with the squeaking.
Things I've tried:
- Re-setting the axle nut a few times after adjusting the wheel side-to-side when loose (always to 75 ft-lbs)
- Braking hard to try to get the calipers to extend out a bit more when relaxed
- Washing the caliper and pads gently with water
- Removing just a bit of brake fluid (the reservoir was past the top fill line, now it's right at it). I'm hesitant do do any more.
I've gone through a lot of YouTube tutorials and all through the official and unofficial manual but nothing precisely covers what's happening to me, and what generally covers me is: "start replacing things, starting with your brake pads and working up"
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That's an annoying chirp. It may or may not matter, but is your belt properly alligned. I know it took me a few tries to get the belt aligned perfectly with about 1 mm clearance on both sides.
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I should have added that in a previous post. Yes, my belt is aligned well, with 1mm from the edge and ± .2mm tolerance.
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Search for "squeak". There are a lot of posts about squeaky brakes with use ideas you can try.
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Search for "squeak". There are a lot of posts about squeaky brakes with use ideas you can try.
Thanks. I guess my immediate question that I haven't found in a search yet is what's the best way to figure out what's causing the noise? Other than "start replacing things"?
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EBC FA208HH pads will stop that annoying squeak.
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I don't know if it's just the lighting but it looks like a seriously warped rotor.
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I don't know if it's just the lighting but it looks like a seriously warped rotor.
What are you seeing that makes you say that? There is some dust on the outer edge of the rotor that's spread inconsistently.
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I don't know if it's just the lighting but it looks like a seriously warped rotor.
What are you seeing that makes you say that? There is some dust on the outer edge of the rotor that's spread inconsistently.
Ah. It's hard to see on my tiny phone screen while I'm in the middle of nowhere in Nepal. :)
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What you might want to try is to take out the pads and apply some silicone grease to all of the metal to metal contacts points, including the back of the brake pad where it contacts the piston. Also lube the brake pad guide pin. Be careful not to get any lube on the brake pad surface.
You could also try grinding a small chamfer on the edge of the brake pad surface.
This should get rid of the squeal.
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What you might want to try is to take out the pads and apply some silicone grease to all of the metal to metal contacts points, including the back of the brake pad where it contacts the piston. Also lube the brake pad guide pin. Be careful not to get any lube on the brake pad surface.
You could also try grinding a small chamfer on the edge of the brake pad surface.
This should get rid of the squeal.
Good ideas; I'm trying everything else before disassembling things but I'll try these next.
This weekend I tried bedding the brakes and it seemed to help quite a bit; the noise is less frequent and also when it does appear it's rather quiet (hard to differentiate between it and songbirds) so I'm gonna keep riding and use the rear brake a bit more heavily and see what happens. Maybe it's just a part of breaking things in. I didn't see anything about bedding the brakes or breaking them in on the Unofficial Manual (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Common_Sounds#Brakes) but I might update it depending on how this goes.
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Good ideas; I'm trying everything else before disassembling things but I'll try these next.
Don't be intimidated about removing and reinstalling the rear pads. It's a really simple procedure and you're going to have to do it sooner or later for maintenance. All you have to do is remove the pin and the pads come right out. Refer to the unofficial manual.
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Was about to adjust my belt tension and thought I'd ask just to make sure since it's my first time. Is there any reason I shouldn't adjust belt tension with the rear wheel on the ground, bike on sidestand)?
Thanks!
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Was about to adjust my belt tension and thought I'd ask just to make sure since it's my first time. Is there any reason I shouldn't adjust belt tension with the rear wheel on the ground, bike on sidestand)?
Thanks!
It's easier with wheel off the ground, so you can spin the wheel to check allignment and tension. It always takes me a few times to get it just right.
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Was about to adjust my belt tension and thought I'd ask just to make sure since it's my first time. Is there any reason I shouldn't adjust belt tension with the rear wheel on the ground, bike on sidestand)?
Thanks!
It's easier with wheel off the ground, so you can spin the wheel to check allignment and tension. It always takes me a few times to get it just right.
Agreed, I also feel better knowing the axle was set without any uneven weight on it. If you don't have one ecavoli, a stand was one of my immediate purchases after getting my bike seeing as how I'll be taking it back to the dealers for only the most involved procedures. I got this stand and it works great: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0AB7MJ/. I find if I set the bolt at the exact same spot as the toe part of the front brake, it raises the rear wheel, whereas putting the rear edge where the toe part is raises the front wheel.
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thanks guys. Never needed a lift with previous bikes. Good excuse to get a new tool!
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thanks guys. Never needed a lift with previous bikes. Good excuse to get a new tool!
The bikes flat bottom makes a scissor lift very effective and safe. And since there is no place to install sliders on the bike, traditional sportbike lifts won't work.
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A rear paddock stand is all you really need. Most of the stands come with adapters which fit under the swing arm and allow you to raise the rear wheel without the need for sliders.
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A rear paddock stand is all you really need. Most of the stands come with adapters which fit under the swing arm and allow you to raise the rear wheel without the need for sliders.
This would work out just as well; my only thinking is a scissor lift lets you operate on the front or rear wheels whereas with a rear paddock stand you'll need either another tool or to devise some way to get the front wheel off the ground. Neither way is wrong.
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Final update on my original belt issue and the brake issue:
- Belt sound is much improved; there's like a "gear shifting" noise when going through the RPMs where it gets louder and softer at different speeds but it's faint and frankly, I think it's perfectly fine
- Brake issue was finally identified and resolved by spraying some silicone lubricant on the back of the brake pads. Confirmed fixed over the last couple days by riding and checking in a nice, echo-y parking garage.
Thanks again everyone.
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Final update on my original belt issue and the brake issue:
- Belt sound is much improved; there's like a "gear shifting" noise when going through the RPMs where it gets louder and softer at different speeds but it's faint and frankly, I think it's perfectly fine
- Brake issue was finally identified and resolved by spraying some silicone lubricant on the back of the brake pads. Confirmed fixed over the last couple days by riding and checking in a nice, echo-y parking garage.
Thanks again everyone.
Silicon is only a temporary fix, but they sell a brake squeal grease specifically for that. I'm glad everything worked out for,you.
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Was about to adjust my belt tension and thought I'd ask just to make sure since it's my first time. Is there any reason I shouldn't adjust belt tension with the rear wheel on the ground, bike on sidestand)?
Thanks!
It's easier with wheel off the ground, so you can spin the wheel to check allignment and tension. It always takes me a few times to get it just right.
I struggled with the tensioning procedure the first few times I adjusted my 2016 DSR so I came up with a procedure that might help others.
(20/30kg tension)
Jacking left screw(bolt) out (adding tension) moves the belt to the right.
Best to get the belt in the correct position (left/right) then adjust tension.
NOTE: Position belt with a right side biases as it will shift to the left when the axle bolt is tightened.
Must use rolling head prybar to pry the right side towards its jack-screw (or just Smack the tire/rim in the desired direction)
NOTE: 1/6 turn of Left jack screw appears to cause a 10KG difference to tension.
If you don't have the correct MM socket (like me) use a 1-1/16" to tension axle nut to 102NM (75#/')
Recommend first removing the jack bolts & grinding or filing off the top so it's smooth to avoid gouging the soft aluminum swing arm.
Put a dapp of aintiseize or grease on the threads while your at it.