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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Jarrett on May 29, 2019, 05:02:41 AM
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I figured this would be a good place to talk about the range of a FX 7.2. It seems to be a frequent question around here.
I bought a 2019 FX 7.2 in February 2019. I'm over 6 foot and around 265 lbs. I'm a total data nerd, so I started tracking rides and performance immediately with the bike to find out what reality was.
Here are the ride stats from my last 15 rides to give you an idea of the range of the FX:
(https://i.ibb.co/fFjj6Zz/60485575-10216180977410611-7950551606737502208-n.jpg)
If you are substantially lighter, you might go a little farther than this. There is a guy that weighs 155 lbs on the Facebook Zero Motorcycles Owners Group that says his FX gets better mileage than what I get on mine. Most everyone else I talk to says my numbers match theirs and some even say they don't get as much as I'm showing above.
Basically, if you want to make 60 miles, you keep your average speed under 30 mph. If you want to go 80 miles, keep it under 25 mph. If you want to go 100 miles, keep it under 20 mph average. Going over 30 mph average will make it drop fast. Also, keep in mind cold temps reduce these numbers and higher temps increase them a bit.
I did another ride this week where I knew it was going to be a short ride, so I hammered it all the way:
Total Distance: 42.10 mi
Moving Time: 1:06:16
Average Speed: 38.1 mph
Elevation Gain: 1,798 ft
Max speed: 88.1 mph
Avg Air Temp: 81.5F
100% of the charge used.
This is what the speeds of this ride looked like to average out to 38 mph:
(https://i.ibb.co/MMTFj50/Speed.jpg)
You can see at the end of the graph where I was holding it wide open throttle and the bike was just continually slowing down as the charge faded away.
On this last ride, I just went out to have fun and run off the full charge of the battery. At one point you can see on the graph, I ran the bike wide open throttle for a couple of miles (@88 mph) and ran it into thermal protection mode doing so and had to slow down for a while. That ran the charge down a fair bit.
After that, I went into town to run some errands and that's the slower mid section of the ride. But even, after getting the charge in the 30% range, it still had enough to hit ~70 mph on the way home. Once I got sub 10%, I could no longer hit 70 mph. It was 65 mph, then it keeps dropping fast from there. At say 6%, it won't hit 50 mph anymore. By the time I got to my street, I was at 0% and it wouldn't go over 30 mph.
That's a weird thing to get used to with electric bikes. Unlike gas bikes where the performance is consistent to the last drop of gas, the performance of an electric bike deteriorates as the charge goes down. At 100% charge, the front wheel flies up on its own almost as it races up to 80mph. Around 30%, 70 mph becomes the max speed. At 7% charge, I can barely hit 40 mph and limp home. All stuff I wish I would have known prior to buying a Zero and things to factor in on a ride.
It takes 10-11 hours to recharge from 0%. Also, something else to consider, the bike goes into thermal protection mode if you hold it at or above 70 mph for over 2 miles or so. Going into thermal protection mode is NOT fun on the highway as it cuts power drastically. If you can get by holding 65 mph for your longest highway stretch, the FX should be fine. It's got plenty of power to be on the highway, passing power and such, but it just doesn't like holding those higher speeds for very long.
The FX was not designed for and really doesn't like going highway speeds for any length of time. It's a great stop sign to stop sign bike, but its not cut out for long highway miles. The DS/DSR fits that function better, I hear.
I've found the range estimator to be pretty accurate towards the end of the charge.
Multiple times now, I've gotten to 0% on a ride and then I start watching the range meter like a hawk.
I've rolled into the driveway after 2-3 miles on 0% and the range meter was at .4 miles remaining.
I watch it much more closely than state of charge for estimating miles. So far, it has not led me astray.
Granted I better be on a 30 mph road once it gets under 9% as that's about as fast as its going to go the rest of the way home.
I recently did a test. I got on the highway and put it in eco mode and held it wide open at 70 miles an hour for several miles. And it didn't overheat. Then I turned around to go back and realize that I had an 18-20 mile-an-hour Tailwind. As soon as I turned around and did the same thing going the other direction, it overheated in about two to three miles.
I dropped it down to 60 miles an hour and let it cool off. The whole trip was 17 miles and I burned 47% of the charge in that time. I wonder if it could actually make 30 miles at 70 miles an hour or not.
On the way home, I thought I'd test it going 70 mph again but across the wind so it wouldn't be a head wind or tail wind. I started at 50% and found a road and took off. It took longer this time, but it over heated again. But instead of slowing down, I just held it knowing that if it moved from the first stage of thermal protection to the second stage, it would slow me down anyway, but it never did.
So, I just kept running 70 mph until I hit 28% and then it started slowing me down. 69, 68, 67 mph. At that point, I turned off to go home. Then it got really fun. The charge started dropping really fast. I got down to 0% really quickly, then the bike died while the range meter still showed 1.6 miles left. And the check engine light came on.
I turned it off and let it sit for a couple of minutes, then started it back up again. To my surprise, it moved. So I limped it home at 20 something mph as that is all it would go. Engine light was on all the way home. Rolled into the driveway with 0.3 miles left on range meter and turned it off. Temp on the dash had cooled down to 172F.
I went to plug it in and it would not charge.
Here are the ride stats:
Distance: 34.31 mi (died at 33 miles initially)
Time: 47:48
Avg Speed: 43.1 mph
Avg Air Temp: 87.8 °F
Max Speed: 71.0 mph
Battery Used: 97% (started with 97%)
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That's just crazy bad. Wow. And I have my eyes on an FXS. There's no other model that I want, or can practically afford.
My commute is 8 miles so no worries there. My GF is 29 miles away and I could easily go 45-50mph most of the way. I'd be run off the road if I went 30. The travel time is around 50 minutes if I take the scenic route, so that looks the most like your 4/14/19 route. That would be sufficient. Assuming I don't tick her off, I can charge my bike overnight. I'll have to plan our fights accordingly. :)
I'm 6'4" and 200 pounds, hoping to lose about 10# this summer, but I probably have 8# of stuff in my backpack.
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Lol, yes. Be nice to her when you ride the FXS over, otherwise you'll be sleeping on a park bench waiting for enough charge to get home.
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I usually get 30-40 miles with lots of WOT on my 7.2 FXS. I've never gotten more than 60 miles but I could if I rode it more slowly. I'm also regeared with the chain for a top speed of 70. It uses less power at that speed than stock. I've never overheated on the freeway but it's pretty easy to overheat gunning around on slower roads.
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Hearing that you carry an extra 85 lb more than me, I'm no longer surprised your 7.2 seems to get less than my 6.5. The weight must have a big impact on overheating, not to mention the power consumption during stop-and-go.
At the moment I have only one repeated route on which to share consistent data (there is also my hypermiling thread).
On a loop of 60 miles and 3000 ft elevation gain, 1:55m duration / 31 mph average, 55-60 degrees, I return with 5% remaining in sport mode or 12% in eco mode, for an extrapolated range of 63 miles or 67 miles, respectively. 6' 180# plus gear, loaded top case, 100W of heated grips/jacket.
I don't like riding it on our local freeways full of traffic averaging 75 mph, dawdling in the right lane on a 300 lb bike. I'll frequently go for a few exits 3-5 miles at 60-65 mph when convenient, which by itself impacts range to the tune of 20%, and my default aggressive acceleration has a similar impact.
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Hearing that you carry an extra 85 lb more than me, I'm no longer surprised your 7.2 seems to get less
Check the post directly above you. I weigh 145 lbs and get similar range!
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Check the post directly above you. I weigh 145 lbs and get similar range!
To be fair, I ride conservatively on occasions when the goal is 60+ miles. All other times, I'm WOT or 60 mph -- but then it takes several days to whittle down the battery and tracking consumption is unimportant.
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Average speed isn't the greatest way to look at range.
For example, I have a 44 mile route that I periodically ride on my 2018 FXS that's almost all highway. Here are two results:
AVG Speed 37 MPH Battery used 50%
AVG Speed 37 MPH Battery used 85%
The difference is that the traffic was steady on the first one, so I was going very close to the average speed the whole time. The second one, sections were stop and go, and then there were breaks in traffic where I went a few miles going 80+ MPH. Clearly a huge difference.
Another significant factor is battery calibration. I highly doubt that in the first scenario where I finished at 50% that I would have been able to go another 44 miles on the remaining "50%", i.e. I think the dash SOC over reported remaining charge. In the second scenario, the dash SOC may have under reported due to voltage sag from a high speed run towards the end. I've seen some of these effects, but haven't put effort into mining the data or using the Zero Voltage app as some have suggested is more accurate.
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Can you post up the specific details from your ride tracking app for those two rides?
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Can you post up the specific details from your ride tracking app for those two rides?
This is only from the dashboard. The trip-odometer gives distance. The distance divided by time on the clock at arrival minus time at departure gives average speed. SOC was also read on the dash.
Trip one: Initial SOC 100%, start time 0638, arrival time 0750. Final SOC 50%. Trip distance 44.0 miles.
Trip two: Initial SOC 100%, start time 0605, arrival time 0717. Final SOC 15%. Trip distance 44.2 miles.
I don't use any ride tracking app, which I know is not particularly helpful. My main point was that you can get to an average speed in different ways, and a low standard deviation in speed contributes to a more efficient ride. If there were no traffic to contend with, I'd do a series of trips at constant speed. I suspect that would produce a nice graph of range or efficiency versus speed and it would start to drop more significantly above 40 MPH or so.
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It's hard to compare without similar data.
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Updated info:
(https://i.ibb.co/DfHqvXm/FX-Range.png)
Had an interesting thing happen today. I was 14% on the way home, about 7 miles to go.
I put it in custom mode that has a max speed of 60 and held it wide open. In about 3 miles, I was down to 5%.
I limped slowing down to sub 40 mph. About 3 miles away from home, it dropped to 0% charge showing 2.0 miles on the range.
At a mile from from home, the range also hit zero. I limped along at sub 20 mph speeds and made it home with 60.14 total miles with a average speed of 30.5, which is shown in the charge above.
I've never run it past zero on the range guesstimator before. Nice to know it will do that.
So far on a 7.2 FX, it seems:
20 mph average = ~100 total miles
25mph average = ~80 total miles
30mph average = ~60 total miles
35 mph average = ~50 total miles
40 mph average = ~40 total miles
45mph average = ~35 total miles
Compared to the marketing:
(https://i.ibb.co/7STg7B3/bs.png)
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Wow, it's not even close.
Perhaps their test dummy weighed 95 pounds soaking wet.
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The standard-conformant testing that Zero claims to use is rather complicated. In addition to a dynamometer calibrated to federal standards, it requires sensitive instruments for measuring tire pressure, wind speed, barometric pressure, humidity, mass. It assumes an 80 kg rider (176 lb).
https://www.mic.org/downloads/MIC-recommended-practice-riding-range-test-procedure-for-on-hwy-electric-motorcycles-042412.pdf
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Hi !
I don't have sats for my '19FX 2'000km so far, but my ranges appear to be (a litte) better.
Typically, I deal w/ city traffic and mountain roads (in Europe) with a range of 110km at less and 125km at best (68-77miles).
This means low average (50kmh or 31mph), but lot of braking-throtteling and with elevations.
That can't compare to straight and fast roads, where it would be lower I guess.
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Jarrett, if you want the posted range miles you need to maintain the "average speed" not go slow for a few miles and then whack it to 70mph.
It's 4X the energy to go 2X the speed.
Get on the bike and go 40MPH on back roads and NEVER go above 50MPH and see what it does.
You never get the range back after you spank it to 70.
And I know this isn't "fun" but it gets you the posted numbers that you seem to claim are not right.
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If you look at my longest ride on the chart, It's almost 71 miles at 26.3 mph with a max speed of 51.7.
I might have been able to hit 75-80 miles on that ride had I pushed it. That ride was very similar to what you describe above. It was not a fun to be sure, it was basically a "see if I can make it" test.
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I had a jump in range today and not sure why. Historically, if I go ~30 mph, I get 60 miles.
Today at 31.6 mph average, I got 67.48 miles. Weird. Was glad to get it, just not sure why:
(https://i.ibb.co/NyM30bp/Capture.png)
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Check your tire pressure, this can effect range and rolling. I found my FX was low from the dealer, after adjusting to the correct pressure, I have noticed an increase in overall range and rolling / coasting goes much further.
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I had a jump in range today and not sure why. Historically, if I go ~30 mph, I get 60 miles.
Today at 31.6 mph average, I got 67.48 miles. Weird. Was glad to get it, just not sure why:
Your answer is probably this:
Jarrett, if you want the posted range miles you need to maintain the "average speed" not go slow for a few miles and then whack it to 70mph.
It's 4X the energy to go 2X the speed.
Get on the bike and go 40MPH on back roads and NEVER go above 50MPH and see what it does.
You never get the range back after you spank it to 70.
And I know this isn't "fun" but it gets you the posted numbers that you seem to claim are not right.
Your table doesn't provide enough data for a meaningful analysis.
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Check your tire pressure, this can effect range and rolling. I found my FX was low from the dealer, after adjusting to the correct pressure, I have noticed an increase in overall range and rolling / coasting goes much further.
I do, thanks.
Get on the bike and go 40MPH on back roads and NEVER go above 50MPH and see what it does.
Your table doesn't provide enough data for a meaningful analysis.
It may not be great, but its all we got.
And it kinda does make sense based on what NEW2elec said. If you look at the max speeds for each of ~60 mile rides, it sort of paints a picture.
Basically, make your ride as boring as possible and you will get a few more miles.
I'm really looking forward to a break though in battery technology that makes these low mileage days something funny to think back on.
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Maybe I missed it but what kind of range are you guys getting off road. Like legit back roads and trails. It looks like most guys use there FX's as city bikes. I ride my DS on single track but it's just a bit to heavy for some stuff. I'd like to switch to a FX but don't see a lot of real data for off road.
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Maybe I missed it but what kind of range are you guys getting off road. Like legit back roads and trails. It looks like most guys use there FX's as city bikes. I ride my DS on single track but it's just a bit to heavy for some stuff. I'd like to switch to a FX but don't see a lot of real data for off road.
My rides are mixed. That 67 mile recently was around 70/30% off pavement. But that's just dirt two track and gravel roads.
I haven't taken mine on any true single track so far, but I have it off pavement a lot. It just depends what speeds you go and how much throttle you use, same as street.
If you ride like Graham Jarvis, its going to be a short trip. If you grandma it, you can go 100 miles.
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Old man Jarvis I am not! Dudes a rock star. The guys out here do some enduro races that are reasonably technical and can go for 3 hrs but at fairly slow speeds. I'll have to see what his a G speed is.
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Jarrett, I wonder how much of that (disappointing) range is related to your weight? I think you weigh more than me. I'm 200# and trying to lose another 10.
I'd be curious if anyone has done the math on what affects range more - wind resistance of our oblong human frame or simply raw weight.
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I'm curious too. I wish there was someone else with the ability capture the same data so we could see.
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I'd be curious if anyone has done the math on what affects range more - wind resistance of our oblong human frame or simply raw weight.
Dollars to doughnuts it's wind resistance. From a theoretical physics perspective, weight will have a miniscule effect on range compared to drag. Of course, a heavier rider will almost always have a higher drag coefficient. If you really want to isolate weight versus wind resistance, the best data would probably come from someone who can compare similar rides with hard luggage empty versus full. Since most setups don't support a large amount of weight, I suspect that it would be difficult to distinguish a difference at all unless the rider has a lot of rides with consistent conditions.
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Have been tracking my rides for my 2017 fxs 6.5 back to early 2017 I have a lot of data saved. Not fx 7.2 but just sharing that wind, outdoor temperature, tire pressure, riding position and how i'm being with throttle control greatly affect my rides. like for all my tracked rides I try to ride each consistantly at the same speeds while not ever using more than 2 bars on power and 2 bars on torque I can usually have 1 bar power and 2 bars torque but if torque is flickering 3 bars I let off so torque only has 2 bars. The 2 bars each only seems to work up to 50 mph I pretty much have to get into 3 bars on torque to maintain speeds above 50. If im getting 3 bars on torque going to be down on battery meter at the end of ride. Most all my longer tracked rides are up to 50 mph. For 1 of my rides 43 miles done in very similar conditions 78- 85 degrees 2-7 mph winds I should consistantly end the ride at 26% battery left. This ride has 30 35 40 45 and 50 mph parts. I have data points or waypoints along the route basically street signs I check my battery state of charge and range at. So for example at 14.7 miles 45th &stubbs I should be at 77% at 24.1 miles at 89th and stubbs I should be at 68% . Only works If I follow the exact same route and ride it exactly the same way each time and with the same conditions like temperature and wind. I set A to range and B is set to Trip 2 thats all I use no app just the dash. battery meter, speedometer, range and Trip 2. Many rides readings recorded with gopro or just an audio recorder and rever for tracking were I rode. So for me 6'4 230 things that affect my rides most tire pressure, outdoor temperature under 73 degrees and i get 22% or lower for my 43 mile ride. Wind over 7 mph and I can have below 22% for my 43 mile ride. Mostly it's how smooth and consistant I am with throttle control not getting into 3 bars on torque. I only ride this way for rides i'm tracking ride the same route any other time and it's all over the place, i'm just enjoying the ride i'm not tracking and riding smooth.
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Wow, it's not even close.
Perhaps their test dummy weighed 95 pounds soaking wet.
OR the Zero Motorcycles marketing could be an outright fraud...?
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Have been tracking my rides for my 2017 fxs 6.5 back to early 2017 I have a lot of data saved. Not fx 7.2 but just sharing that wind, outdoor temperature, tire pressure, riding position and how i'm being with throttle control greatly affect my rides. like for all my tracked rides I try to ride each consistantly at the same speeds while not ever using more than 2 bars on power and 2 bars on torque I can usually have 1 bar power and 2 bars torque but if torque is flickering 3 bars I let off so torque only has 2 bars. The 2 bars each only seems to work up to 50 mph I pretty much have to get into 3 bars on torque to maintain speeds above 50. If im getting 3 bars on torque going to be down on battery meter at the end of ride. Most all my longer tracked rides are up to 50 mph. For 1 of my rides 43 miles done in very similar conditions 78- 85 degrees 2-7 mph winds I should consistantly end the ride at 26% battery left. This ride has 30 35 40 45 and 50 mph parts. I have data points or waypoints along the route basically street signs I check my battery state of charge and range at. So for example at 14.7 miles 45th &stubbs I should be at 77% at 24.1 miles at 89th and stubbs I should be at 68% . Only works If I follow the exact same route and ride it exactly the same way each time and with the same conditions like temperature and wind. I set A to range and B is set to Trip 2 thats all I use no app just the dash. battery meter, speedometer, range and Trip 2. Many rides readings recorded with gopro or just an audio recorder and rever for tracking were I rode. So for me 6'4 230 things that affect my rides most tire pressure, outdoor temperature under 73 degrees and i get 22% or lower for my 43 mile ride. Wind over 7 mph and I can have below 22% for my 43 mile ride. Mostly it's how smooth and consistant I am with throttle control not getting into 3 bars on torque. I only ride this way for rides i'm tracking ride the same route any other time and it's all over the place, i'm just enjoying the ride i'm not tracking and riding smooth.
That's some dedication right there.
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Yeah, I don't have that kind of patience.
I have to admit, its kinda nice when I get on an ICE bike to go for a ride and not worry about range, thermal protection, average mph, excessive throttle pulls, etc.
But then I do get heat, noise, vibration, clunky gear shifts, less nimble ride, etc.
I guess everything is a compromise.
One day, they'll have something like the SR/F performance that goes 500 miles a charge at a more reasonable price and we'll laugh at these days.
I might be too old to enjoy it by then though...