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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: talon on June 08, 2019, 10:49:04 AM
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Just received a new thin belt for my 2016 SR. Just thought I would share that the belt was completely dressed (on *all* sides) in what feels like a silicon or "teflon" type lubricant, straight from Zero HQ. Also, Zero HQ doesn't seem to trust coiling the belts--they sent me it in a 3-1/2ft long box with plenty of bubble wrap, no sharp bends. So I guess from now on I will be dressing my belt, assuming it doesn't attract too much dirt and debris. That's as good as an official rec to me. My 3 year old spare official belt is badly faded but otherwise completely intact for an emergency. I will be tracking down a supplier for the emergency custom flexible belts again and possibly doing another order like Omar (U4WE) did awhile back.
My belt snapped at a certain point along half of its width after assumingly ingesting a pebble (and while completely unbeknownst to me). It then lost a few teeth when I was discovering why "that clicking sound was proportional to my throttle". It did not break however and was able to get me 10 miles home without melting or damaging anything.
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My guess is that the "dressing" is a method to preserve the belt from environmental degradation while it is being stored. I doubt it is any sort of lubrication, if that is what you are thinking. But what kind of coating is on that replacement belt when it left the Gates factory would be important information to know. ???
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It would be helpful to know what this grease or other material is. I’m inclined to believe that it is for storage preservation, not for operating environments.
We’ve seen belts fail for applying lubricant. It’s a very light application that helps if at all.
I store my spare belt in a big loop, FYI, whether in the bottom of a wide box at home, or around the circumference of my top trunk on a ride.
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Stick to what you know talon. It's a big leap to assume some crap on an unused belt is an "official rec" to slather her on.
If you want to lube your driveline get a chain. It'll be more reliable anyway.
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I also have a spare belt for my 2018 S. I have stored it as an open loop and sealed it in an air-tight plastic bag. I gotta tell you, that $120 replacement belt is sure a lot cheaper than the one being sold by BMW for their F800GT. That sucker costs around $500! :o
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My understanding is than belt dressing makes no point fir the belt itself (i did it and it was a mistake) BUT applying it on the engine sprocket might reduce the so called groan noise - worked for me. See unofficial zero manual.
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FYI, the Gates carbon fiber reinforced belt is very susceptible to damage if not handled properly. See these handling instructions in the link below. Although the manual is for a bicycle drive belt, the same principals apply to the belts on our bikes. The new consensus is to not apply any kind of dressing or lubrication to the belt. Keep it adjusted to the lowest end of the tension range and positioned so there is a 1mm gap between the belt and the outside flange on the rear pulley, and you should be fine.
https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/media/files/gcd/owners-manuals/english-owners-manual-gates-carbon-drive.pdf?la=en
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You could coil it into thirds, that's how I carried my 2016 DSR spare OE belt in a zippered pouch (https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Repair-String-Passenger-Light/dp/B014RVNARM).
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I'm aware of how careful one needs to be when handling and installing these. Thanks all. I have no groan noise for whatever reason and I ride regularly in the rain (DC is the new Washington state).
Hmm.. your dealer may be upcharging the replacement belts (not by much) or my dealer may be charging at cost (also likely, knowing the guy). In either case if they had them in stock it would be worth it to me to pay that extra amount as a "stocking fee"--mine were ordered.
The reason I'm inferring that dressing is a good idea is that my oldest good spare from 2016 with 8k Cali miles on it is faded, extremely dry, and starting to crack on its backing rubber and teeth. The new belt looks ridiculously darker (these belts are supposed to be black?!). My February 2018 purchased thin belt is the partially snapped one and it looks closer to the spare already than the new. I realize that this doesn't mean it was a contributor of failure, and the dressing in question IS likely for warehouse storage.. but I imagine these cracks can't be good for longevity. I'd love to decode the item number and get a date of manufacture from it.
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So, does Gates issue any recommendations about their belts receiving prolonged UV exposure or the like?
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Did way too much belt research. According to major competitors Continental and Goodyear, which offer drop in replacements that meet or exceed that of Gates requirements for Poly Chain HTD Carbon GT2 belts, never apply belt dressing to synchronous belts, they are supposed to be *mostly* UV, oil, and ozone "resistant". If my belt breaks again and it comes as a surprise I might try a Continental Falcon Pd belt of the appropriate spec. Some even offer negative bending support at the same working loads. Lots of information for engineers here that are bored and wishing to evaluate the belt drive systems and learn how to integrate it in accordance with the belt manufacturer's data.
https://www.applied.com/webmedia/product_assets/hed/h9d/9896338784286.pdf
page that says "Falcon Pd" is a drop in replacement
https://www.sos-safety.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/hawkpd.pdf
page that shows ALL the drop-in replacements for HTD pulley profiles
https://www.rainbowprecisionproducts.com/documents/ContiTech_Install_Data_Sheet.pdf
practical information and troubleshooting
https://www.contitech.de/getmedia/b2205aa1-0c1e-4f4f-8fa7-b565e64f4675/PTG8035-DeEn-CONTI-SYNCHROCHAIN.pdf
design data and examples
It should go without saying but of course none of these parts may be homologated. Don't do this (what I may do by trying a different belt), just buy the stock belt from a dealer.. yatta yatta. A different profile may walk off the pulley and tangle stopping your wheel at speed. Any time you don't fully understand the situation there is risk.
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Thanks for the information and taking the time to sort through it! I’ll do my part to integrate it into our shared knowledge.
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This is interesting. What would be the reference for a Zero Xu (same as Zero S/DS until 2016 included) belt ( 220T, 8MM PITCH, 14MM WIDE - ZM30-08084 (ex 30-03673)
It costs 140 $ including shipping, and for bikes out of warranty a working part is all I need...
Did way too much belt research. According to major competitors Continental and Goodyear, which offer drop in replacements that meet or exceed that of Gates requirements for Poly Chain HTD Carbon GT2 belts, never apply belt dressing to synchronous belts, they are supposed to be *mostly* UV, oil, and ozone "resistant". If my belt breaks again and it comes as a surprise I might try a Continental Falcon Pd belt of the appropriate spec. Some even offer negative bending support at the same working loads. Lots of information for engineers here that are bored and wishing to evaluate the belt drive systems and learn how to integrate it in accordance with the belt manufacturer's data.
https://www.applied.com/webmedia/product_assets/hed/h9d/9896338784286.pdf
page that says "Falcon Pd" is a drop in replacement
https://www.sos-safety.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/hawkpd.pdf
page that shows ALL the drop-in replacements for HTD pulley profiles
https://www.rainbowprecisionproducts.com/documents/ContiTech_Install_Data_Sheet.pdf
practical information and troubleshooting
https://www.contitech.de/getmedia/b2205aa1-0c1e-4f4f-8fa7-b565e64f4675/PTG8035-DeEn-CONTI-SYNCHROCHAIN.pdf
design data and examples
It should go without saying but of course none of these parts may be homologated. Don't do this (what I may do by trying a different belt), just buy the stock belt from a dealer.. yatta yatta. A different profile may walk off the pulley and tangle stopping your wheel at speed. Any time you don't fully understand the situation there is risk.
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Moto,
I would call around, that sounds a bit high to me, or you are ordering old stock specifically for that model year bike or have to pay shipping costs.
If you say it uses P/N ZM30-03673 or ZM30-08084 those are usually said to be $70-110USD unless you live somewhere outside the continental United States. Assuming those are the correct length for your pulley set up. Maybe I got it dropshipped to my house because my bike is still under warranty, I don't know.
Brian,
As always, thank you. Let me know if you need help (anywhere).
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I am in Europe, and I own two zeros - a Zero XU 2012 and a FXS 2017. I wanted to stock a belt for the XU, but only if it is cheap (20 $), so probable adaptable part. The help I would need is a "compatible" reference in a more available brand - i dont know anything to belts.
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I will chime in with my usual suggestion for Zero Parts
Harlan at Hollywood Electrics. Not necessarily the best price
but, if it can be had, he should be able to get it for you
BTW, I purchased the high speed gearing set up for my 2016 SR
through him not long ago showing discontinued on Zero site.
If I recall, it wasn't a whole lot more than you posted for just a belt
Harlan Flagg
Hollywood Electrics
store 323.654.8271
cell 818.282.6767
harlan@hollywoodelectrics.com
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I am in Europe, and I own two zeros - a Zero XU 2012 and a FXS 2017. I wanted to stock a belt for the XU, but only if it is cheap (20 $), so probable adaptable part. The help I would need is a "compatible" reference in a more available brand - i dont know anything to belts.
The cheapest Zero belt that I have ever purchased was the one that I bought for my 2012 S. It sold for $80 USD. As the years rolled by, the price creeped up, until the last replacement belt that I bought for my 2018 S, sold for $120. I can imagine that a belt shipped to the EU from the U.S. would sell for more than that after custom fees and EU taxes.
BMW rubber belts for their F800GT go for around $500 and can not be sourced from any other supplier (yet). MY 1985 Kawasaki EX305 had a rubber drive belt made by the Japanese firm "Bando" (what a great name ::) ). Even that belt, way back then, sold for more than $20. So good luck with your quest for a cheap drive belt. ???
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I replaced it on a Zero S and only paid 20 $ at that time...
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Did way too much belt research.........
If my belt breaks again and it comes as a surprise I might try a Continental Falcon Pd belt of the appropriate spec.
Me too & what I found was no one offers an 8mm pitch 220tooth belt that's 14mm wide.
You would have to buy a wider belt & cut it to 14mm.
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Has anyone tried the Lunacycle belt/sheaves upgrade?
https://lunacycle.com/zero-motorcycle-wide-belt-sprocket-conversion-kit/
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Has anyone tried the Lunacycle belt/sheaves upgrade?
https://lunacycle.com/zero-motorcycle-wide-belt-sprocket-conversion-kit/
I've got it. Good quality, solid. Haven't installed it yet. I'm waiting till I get rear shock replacement, will do both at the same time.
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Did way too much belt research.........
If my belt breaks again and it comes as a surprise I might try a Continental Falcon Pd belt of the appropriate spec.
Me too & what I found was no one offers an 8mm pitch 220tooth belt that's 14mm wide.
You would have to buy a wider belt & cut it to 14mm.
I ran the 12mm one for a bit. Seemed fine. Broke after a while, like the standard belts do. Probably more suitable for an S/DS than a SR/DSR. Probably more suitable for gentle motorcyclists who ride on smooth roads than twitchy motorcyclists torquing up potholed roads.
The one I ran:
https://texasbelting.com/products/gates-8mgt-1760-12
Similar price, cheaper shipping, looks like the same thing:
https://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Gates-8MGT-1760-12-Poly-Chain-GT-Carbon-Synchronous-Belt-9274-0220-p16562.htm
Half the price of the Zero version. I'm guessing it's 6/7ths the breaking strength.
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Thanks, this is really helpful.
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Hey guys, still here. I've been talking to manufacturers in my spare time. One supplier I talked to is talking to the major technical representatives and answering the big questions..
There may even be a stronger topology to the carbon tensile cords/nylonish clothish backing and tooth faces. I am testing fiberglass, polyester, kevlar (aramid), and HYBRID tensile corded emergency belts made in polyurethane (toughest?), EPDM (new school), nitrile, neoprene (old school), nylon (quiet) backing/teeth. polypropylene?
Belts are typically ordered in very wide sleeves and cut to width. This seems doable with a homemade jig (I may have linked the video of this already).
I plan on doing an emergency belt bulk order, at much cheaper prices than the first time around. I'm still testing samples now. I found a supplier that is able to do a bulk order in the scale we need of the most likely winner. If you are interested please reply and leave me a method to contact you (like your messages!) or PM me.
Sorry, I've only had time to work on this super late and removing a swingarm sucks. At least my belt breaking prematurely alerted me to the fact I have a bad swingarm bearing. I'll leave that to a real mechanic.
More info for you, fellow nerds:
https://assets.gates.com/content/dam/pdf-archive/GatesMectrol_Belt_Pulley_Catalog.pdf
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Any news, Talon?
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Sorry for the crazy delay.. working through a move and prospective change of employment. I need to replace my swingarm bearings as my left has gotten "notchy" at 9k miles. I also am having trouble with my belt tension changing intermittently by over 25kg in the same spot (on belt AND pulley and pulley angle).. (tested with everything so well controlled--ugh) with the Zero official belt. I'm scratching my head on this, perhaps my measurement tools are the culprit?