ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Too little too late on August 17, 2019, 02:09:36 PM
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Ï€pI'm looking for a replacement charging cord for a 2017 S, and I can't find anyone selling a 12 gauge computer cord. Anyone out there have any leads?
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12 gauge? 14 AWG in a ten-foot length is the OEM cord and I just reordered one from Amazon. Do you want the 12 AWG because you need longer than 10 feet?
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12 gauge? 14 AWG in a ten-foot length is the OEM cord and I just reordered one from Amazon. Do you want the 12 AWG because you need longer than 10 feet?
I would love to find a 12 gauge cord, because even the 14 gauge one gets warm, especially the end that plugs into the bike, but I assume it's because it's all the cheap c-14 connector can handle. So I don't believe a 12 gauge cord would help. Just my opinion. I couldn't even find a 12 gauge cord on amazon. Best i could find was 14 gauge x 10'.
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That's the one. As the cords get older, they'll heat up more. I replaced my three year old cord because it was getting positively HOT to the touch. The new one just gets a little warm. If you search around here you'll see an entire thread dedicated to this topic.
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I saw the thread, and they were saying that a 16 gauge cord was working for them. I don't understand that. I have a 25 foot 12 gauge extension cord that's dropping down from the ceiling where I park the bike. Then a 3 foot 14 gauge cord from there to the bike inlet. The extension cord stays cold, but the entire 3 foot length of that 14 gauge computer cord gets hot. Too hot. I've spent hours trying to find a 12 gauge computer cord, and just thought someone else might be getting hot too, and maybe solved the issue. Thanks for the reply's.
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I saw the thread, and they were saying that a 16 gauge cord was working for them. I don't understand that. I have a 25 foot 12 gauge extension cord that's dropping down from the ceiling where I park the bike. Then a 3 foot 14 gauge cord from there to the bike inlet. The extension cord stays cold, but the entire 3 foot length of that 14 gauge computer cord gets hot. Too hot. I've spent hours trying to find a 12 gauge computer cord, and just thought someone else might be getting hot too, and maybe solved the issue. Thanks for the reply's.
The ones they sell at Wal-Mart are 16 gauge. They get real hot. I purchased my bike used and that what it came with. So I immediately ordered the 14 gauge cord from amazon.
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If you know any buddies in IT, they should be able to hook you up. I just ordered 2 dell servers and each came with 2 14-gauge power cables. We use different power cables with our PDUs so I took all 4 home. Also, if you can run 240v the cable will carry half the amps and as a result less heat.
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I've been using this
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5292
for years now, and it never gets warm or causes trouble. The length means I don't have to use an extension cord with it, which is a good thing...one fewer connector to fail. After living outdoors for several years it's got a few cracks in the strain relief, so I'll probably replace it soon, but it still charges my bike like a champ.
14 AWG is plenty. If something is warming up, it's not the wire gauge causing problems.
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That one is only six feet long. 14 AWG is fine for at least ten feet as that is the length of the stock cord. Anything longer, though, and you'd want a heavier gauge. But thanks for pointing out that six foot cord. I don't really need anything longer than that in my garage!
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I've been using this
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5292
for years now, and it never gets warm or causes trouble. The length means I don't have to use an extension cord with it, which is a good thing...one fewer connector to fail. After living outdoors for several years it's got a few cracks in the strain relief, so I'll probably replace it soon, but it still charges my bike like a champ.
14 AWG is plenty. If something is warming up, it's not the wire gauge causing problems.
Perhaps another solution would be to use a heavier long extension cord, like 12 gauge, connected to a short 14 gauge computer cable. I have one that is only 3 feet long that I bought from Amazon as I park my bike right next to my wall outlet. But then I also have a longer standard and heavier extension cord for when I need it.
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That one is only six feet long. 14 AWG is fine for at least ten feet as that is the length of the stock cord. Anything longer, though, and you'd want a heavier gauge. But thanks for pointing out that six foot cord. I don't really need anything longer than that in my garage!
Actually the link I tried to post was for the 25-footer I'm using. It just reverted to the default length, I guess. Click on whichever length you want, they've got quite a selection.
Length doesn't have anything to do with current carrying ability. You may have SLIGHTLY more voltage drop, but it's less than a volt over 25 feet at 14 AWG and 15 amps, not worth talking about. Heating is per unit length, so the 25-footer will generate more heat, but it's over a longer length, so it will dissipate exactly the same way. As I said, mine's been working fine for years now.
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The only 12 AWG cord I could find is only 7 ft long. (They also have a 3 ft long one) Both rated at 15 Amp.
It comes with the IEC-320-C13 on one end but comes with the wrong plug on the other end.
Fortunately, heavy-duty NEMA 5-15P are available at the home centers and elsewhere and all you'd have to do is replace that end and you'll have the cable you are looking for.
Only a screwdriver and a wire cutter are needed for this job.
Only thing to be careful about is how you wire the new plug but being that there are only three wires it is quite simple: On the replacement plug, the green wire to the green screw, the black wire to the copper colored screw and the white wire to the silver screw.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tripp-lite/P032-007/TL417-ND/1533393 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tripp-lite/P032-007/TL417-ND/1533393)
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-515PV-07196000501-Pack-Yellow/dp/B0015P708Y/ref=pd_cp_60_1?pd_rd_w=KFO5w&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=F7JZ6D1H40N5C7EVF6JP&pd_rd_r=d8417dac-ae47-4e12-98d4-057d7de43219&pd_rd_wg=GbG8m&pd_rd_i=B0015P708Y&psc=1&refRID=F7JZ6D1H40N5C7EVF6JP (https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-515PV-07196000501-Pack-Yellow/dp/B0015P708Y/ref=pd_cp_60_1?pd_rd_w=KFO5w&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=F7JZ6D1H40N5C7EVF6JP&pd_rd_r=d8417dac-ae47-4e12-98d4-057d7de43219&pd_rd_wg=GbG8m&pd_rd_i=B0015P708Y&psc=1&refRID=F7JZ6D1H40N5C7EVF6JP)
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Thank you NetPro. That was the lead I was looking for. I ordered the 3' and the 7'. And because inquiring minds may want to know. I know I do. I'll measure the temperature of the 14 gauge cord I'm using, and the new 12 gauge cord when it arrives. In my humble opinion, any heat I can feel on this charging cord is wasted energy. There are two other electric vehicles charging in my garage from midnight to six in the morning, and this is the only hot cord. I hope this takes care of the issue so I can sleep better at night. Thanks again NetPro.
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Thank you NetPro. That was the lead I was looking for. I ordered the 3' and the 7'. And because inquiring minds may want to know. I know I do. I'll measure the temperature of the 14 gauge cord I'm using, and the new 12 gauge cord when it arrives. In my humble opinion, any heat I can feel on this charging cord is wasted energy. There are two other electric vehicles charging in my garage from midnight to six in the morning, and this is the only hot cord. I hope this takes care of the issue so I can sleep better at night. Thanks again NetPro.
Sure Man, no problem!
By the way if the 12 AWG cord still gets warm (doubt it will be much if any) you could make your own with wire size 10.
Digikey or Mouser, or both, sell the IEC-320-C13 connector only and if you buy some of that high-quality, extra-flexible silicone wire in size 10, you should not see that one warming up as it may happen with the 12 gauge wire, but that may be overkill.
The only issue with this wire is that it does not come in a "cord" with three conductors but just single one. Now, what I would do is make my own using Split Braided Cable Sleeving Wrap, like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Split-Cable-Sleeving-Wrap-Techflex/dp/B01MRLJ93K/ref=pd_cp_263_1?pd_rd_w=dpMzX&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=CSC68A19SZ6XG0ZQR3Q0&pd_rd_r=60fdd130-a7cf-417e-a650-cd3738f0c8d4&pd_rd_wg=8mEfC&pd_rd_i=B01MRLJ93K&psc=1&refRID=CSC68A19SZ6XG0ZQR3Q0 (https://www.amazon.com/Split-Cable-Sleeving-Wrap-Techflex/dp/B01MRLJ93K/ref=pd_cp_263_1?pd_rd_w=dpMzX&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=CSC68A19SZ6XG0ZQR3Q0&pd_rd_r=60fdd130-a7cf-417e-a650-cd3738f0c8d4&pd_rd_wg=8mEfC&pd_rd_i=B01MRLJ93K&psc=1&refRID=CSC68A19SZ6XG0ZQR3Q0)
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Finally going to put some closure on this issue I was having with 14 gauge charging cords. One was only three feet long but was warming up to 135 degrees in only 20 minutes. I could smell the insulation cooking. I also have a 10 foot 14 gauge cord that gets warmer than I like. Both of these cords are original with molded ends. I have a 12 gauge extension cord connected to a timer and the only 20 amp outlet left in the garage, it's hanging from the ceiling over the bike. After charging the bike all night it doesn't even get warm. People are saying 14 works fine, but that's not what's happening in my garage. I located a 12 gauge cord with the wrong connector on one end, thank you NetPro, so I cut it off and replaced it with a nice heavy duty male end. After 30 minutes I can feel a little heat at the side of the bike, but other than that its room temperature. Now I can sleep at night. I ordered three of these cords. One for the garage, one for the road, and one just because. Just because I might not find one again. There were additional issues with the purchase of these cords. In my garage, charging the 2017 Zero S, and two other electric vehicles. And currently the electric company owes me money. No pun intended. Thanks for all the help.
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Sounds like I'm too late, but I spotted this 10ft, 12AWG cord yesterday: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078V9K14V/?coliid=I1ALC1ZC77UAMS&colid=3TT44I4EXPTAF&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
I was about to order one, but I already have a spare OEM cable.
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Sounds like I'm too late, but I spotted this 10ft, 12AWG cord yesterday: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078V9K14V/?coliid=I1ALC1ZC77UAMS&colid=3TT44I4EXPTAF&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
I was about to order one, but I already have a spare OEM cable.
I'm getting one. Thanks for the info.
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Could you please let us know if you actually receive the 12 gauge cord, and also if it stays fairly cool in use. The three foot 12 gauge cord I ordered arrived and it was a 14. I could only get the 7 foot in 12, and I had to modify one end. A 10 foot would be great for the road. It looks like a nice cord. Thanks puff, it's never too late. Exploring all options.
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I can verify that a BRAND NEW 14AWG cord in the ten foot length is NOT getting hot (barely lukewarm) compared to my two year old cord that got too hot to touch. These things DO wear out as repeated plugging/unplugging causes the contacts to wear out increasing resistance.
I suspect that 12AWG cord will just take a little longer to wear out, but it will eventually wear out.
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Hmm.. I tend to disagree there.. The power load of these cables isn't what makes them warm, it's the increased resistance at the contact point. And that is the result of arcing when terminating and removing the connection countless times. The wear and tear would be MUCH less if it was possible to shut off the charger before making or removing connection. This is partly the reason why EV cars rely on the communication between external controller and internal charger. by cutting supply before removing the plug you reduce the stress of the metal within the connector so much it more than 5 doubles the lifetime of the connector.
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Friction causes the plating to wear, and the older plug doesn't fit as snugly over the pins as the newer one does. Tighter fit generally means better contact and therefore less resistance.
I'm wondering if the life MIGHT be extended a bit by coating the pins with dielectric grease? That would certainly reduce the friction from countless plug/unplug cycles and should reduce the wear...
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I'm wondering if the life MIGHT be extended a bit by coating the pins with dielectric grease? That would certainly reduce the friction from countless plug/unplug cycles and should reduce the wear...
Dialectric grease is non-conductive, isn't it?
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Finally going to put some closure on this issue I was having with 14 gauge charging cords. One was only three feet long but was warming up to 135 degrees in only 20 minutes. I could smell the insulation cooking.
I find the best way to charge these bikes is with 240 VAC. The stock bike chargers will draw half as much current at 240 VAC.
I charge my SR with as much as 8.3KW at home and nothing gets all that warm. IIRC, you also own an electric car. If you charge that with 240 VAC J1772 or Tesla, there are ways to convert that to charge your bike. I use a Tesla Wall station, with a TeslaTap which runs the on-board and two 2.5KW chargers. That adds up to around 6.3 KW, all from a single line.
If I am in a hurry to charge, I also have two 1 KW Delta Q chargers that each use 120 VAC, separate lines on a ten gauge line. So then I charge at 8.3KW, using mostly 240 VAC, but two KW worth on 120 VAC, all at the same time.
8.3 KW worth of charging and nothing gets overly warm.
You can buy one of these (https://www.tucsonev.com/images/Zero/Zero-1xC13-2xC19.gif) at Tucson EV (https://www.tucsonev.com/), They are much better than the one Zero sells.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Friction causes the plating to wear, and the older plug doesn't fit as snugly over the pins as the newer one does. Tighter fit generally means better contact and therefore less resistance.
I'm wondering if the life MIGHT be extended a bit by coating the pins with dielectric grease? That would certainly reduce the friction from countless plug/unplug cycles and should reduce the wear...
Friction is only a fraction of the problem. Arcing makes the metal oxidize(sp). Friction on a 0 voltage connection will still outlast 5k+ matings easy.. with arcing however, not even close..
I learned this working for a company producing contactors.. Same problem there. The contactors had their MTBF based on doing matings with current running through them. their lifetime increased from ~100k matings to 1.5 million+ if done without current running through them.
If the grease is conductive, and the arcing is moved from the surface of the metal to the surface of the grease, it could help.. if not, the problem would still be there.. :/
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(despite being last poster, i decided to make another instead of editing since the information is that much older/newer)
Yesterday i decided to make a new chargecord for my DSR.
I was pensive about this for some time simply because i'm waiting for the excellent work of DigiNow to arrive.
Knowing the supercharger was just a few weeks away, and this years riding season nearing it's end i wasn't going to spend any money on this this year.
Still, as an electrical engineer it annoys me that the charger doesn't shut off when finished, but keeps pushing amps untill disconnected.
So, i made a 5 meter cable with a box on it. Inside this box i have 2 relays. One is handling the power to the charger, the other handles the power to the first.
Second relay is one of those smart relays you can program. In this case i set it for delayed off, then for 4 hours of operation. This covers my daily needs for when commuting.
It will keep the contactor off until power cycled.
So, my idea was.. Use components i have "in stock" at home, create a simple way for a set it and forget it type of operation, make it work in a way that if it needs more attention, make sure it gives ample charge for the daily commute and that it shuts off the charger safely preventing arcing in the outlet.
It's a simple solution for a temporary "problem"..
We'll see with time if it works or not. :)
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It actually does shut off when the battery is fully charged. When the bike is charging, the cord is warm. In the morning, when I unplug it, the cord is ice cold. Also, you can pull it from the bike first and there is no arcing (not like if you plug it in there to charge AFTER you've already plugged it into the wall, or if you pull it before it is completely charged).
Zero's documentation even says when the battery is fully charged, it will stop charging and not start charging again until the battery drops below 90%. If it detects that it hasn't been moved in a long time, the newer software will drop the level from 90% down to just 60% (long term storage mode).
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Weird
Three times now i've experienced otherwise..
2 of which caused arcing when pulling the plug from the bike.
Dash said 100%, the green LED had stopped blinking, app said still charging despite displaying 100%
Bike is on latest firmware.
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I don't care if it's fully charged or not, I always unplug from wall first. Just a good habit imo to PLUGIN wall last and UNPLUG wall first.
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Just to clarify. On the SR/F, when you push the button on the handle it stops charging. So donot unplug at wall first.
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I don't care if it's fully charged or not, I always unplug from wall first. Just a good habit imo to PLUGIN wall last and UNPLUG wall first.
What HE said. :)
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Hey! I just bought a pair of those D'Addario amp cables and they're really nice. The coating on them is a little soft, and they stick out the sides when I tuck them into the tube on my bike but... Stylish when plugged in.
Oh, and they came with a free guitar humidifier. Hehe.
-Crissa