ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: SRich on December 09, 2019, 08:41:03 AM
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A couple of months ago the charger on my 2015 Zero S stopped working. I took it to my local dealer and they said the charger needed to be replaced. Almost exactly a year previous my battery died and was replaced under warranty. The original battery was 9.4 Ah. The battery was replaced with a 14.4 Ah battery, which was great, except that I am wondering if the original charger was not capable of charging the 14.4 battery without overheating. The reason I question this is I rarely depleted the battery below 50 percent (I don't think ever durring the year I had the 14.4 ah battery) until the point the charger failed. When the charger burned out it was the one time I had depleted the battery down to 15 percent. The charger lasted until the SOC was 98 percent before it failed. What are the chances the original charger was not up to the task of charging a 14.4 ah battery in the first place, or perhaps not for any significant period of time? Has anyone else had a similar experience? According to the dealer, Zero would not cover the charger under warranty. Ironically at the same time my charger died, the dealer had another 2015 Zero S in the shop with a dead charger. So maybe the chargers were just not very reliable in the first place. If that that were the case, wouldn't there be a recall on the charger, or wouldn't Zero at least cover the cost of the charger even if out if warranty? I am presuming Zero will stand behind their product like other companies.
My Honda motorcycle has had a couple of recalls that were taken care of outside the warranty period. Wouldn't you think Zero would do the same? Anyone heard if there may be a recall issued for chargers?
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This is a common failure.
As far as I know all the "S" bikes have the same charger. The BMS should tell it when to turn on and off.
Lots of people have wanted a recall but I assume since it's not a safety issue they aren't mandated to do it.
There is a new "version" number on the newer replacement units so maybe some improvements.
Sorry but you'll likely have to cover it yourself.
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What are the chances the original charger was not up to the task of charging a 14.4 ah battery in the first place, or perhaps not for any significant period of time?
It will charge at the same KW as before, which means the charger is on longer. That means the same amount of heat in the charger, but for a longer time.
However, how much difference that makes in reliability is not known. Zero uses the same charger on the smaller battery of the same year as the larger battery. With my two 2017 Zeros one has a 6.5 KWH battery, the other has 16.5 KWHs to charge. AFAIK, they both use the same charger. But of course the bike with more KWH is on about 2.5 times as long.
If you're concerned that could make a difference, always run a quick charger, even when you're in no hurry to charge. That's what I do, to reduce the number of hours the on-board charger is on.
-Don- Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
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+1 on the quick charger.
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+1 on the quick charger.
And I should add you can also run only the quick charger without the OBC. Just do not plug the bike in and turn the key on and off once after the quick charger is connected.
-Don- Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
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@SRich can you tell us what you ended up doing? I'm having the same issue, my onboard charger literally caught fire. Good thing I had my eyes on and it happened right when I plugged AC in, so there was very little damage, but sure enough the charger itself ceased to work.
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@SRich can you tell us what you ended up doing? I'm having the same issue, my onboard charger literally caught fire. Good thing I had my eyes on and it happened right when I plugged AC in, so there was very little damage, but sure enough the charger itself ceased to work.
I experienced this problem with my first electric motorcycle, a 2009 Electric Motorsport GPR-S, after only 300 miles. Fortunately, I was in my garage at the time when the bike started smoking. :o When the manufacturer told me that the charger and its BMS was no longer available, my solution was to trade that bike in for a 2010 GPR-S. That one lasted for 1300 miles before the batteries died. At least the charger didn't burn up before the batteries gave up. ::) After that experience, it was all Zeros from then on. ;)
Yours is the first time that I have heard of a Zero charger reported to have caught on fire mentioned on this forum, other than a couple of instances with the 2012 models that resulted in a recall of the entire year's production of S and DS models. I am happy to hear that you caught it before any more damage was done.
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Yours is the first time that I have heard of a Zero charger reported to have caught on fire mentioned on this forum, .
I don't think that was really a fire, it just let out the magic smoke.
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Does anybody know if the OBC has to be reprogrammed once replaced, or is it plug and play?
I'm about to order a new one, just double checking.
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Yours is the first time that I have heard of a Zero charger reported to have caught on fire mentioned on this forum, .
I don't think that was really a fire, it just let out the magic smoke.
Mine caught fire internally and didn’t let out smoke. The potting is extremely thick and fills most of the chassis so it will extinguish board fires typically.
Unlike most people, I diligently removed the potting to expose the board and found the damage to be more extensive than I would have guessed. I posted the teardown to the manual.
Anyway I do think that when these fail, many times there is a tiny fire that is immediately extinguished by the potting.
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Does anybody know if the OBC has to be reprogrammed once replaced, or is it plug and play?
I'm about to order a new one, just double checking.
It does not.
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The onboard charger is a common failure for all the S/DS Zero. Even the new 1300w version died after a few thousand kilometres on my bike. And the price is too expensive for a 1kw power charger... In my opinion, the 6kw charge tank is a better solution. Easy install and much more durable.
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And I should add you can also run only the quick charger without the OBC. Just do not plug the bike in and turn the key on and off once after the quick charger is connected.
-Don- Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
What's the procedure? Plug in charger, turn key on, then off. That's it?
I might pick up the DeltaQ quick charger.
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Key on, plug in quick charger, wait for it to start charging, key off and it will keep charging.
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What's the procedure? Plug in charger, turn key on, then off. That's it?
I might pick up the DeltaQ quick charger.
The QC connector is just above the motor. I find it a small hassle to get to, so I have mine connected to a "Y" cable mounted on the bike so I can then easily use one or two QCs as well as the OBC as I am now doing.
The differences will be:
1. The bikes's key will have to be on for the charging to start. As soon as it starts charging, the bike can be switched off and charging will continue. This is only if you cannot use the OBC as well. On the QC, when the top light is on, you're charging. That may take ten seconds or so after everything is connected up correctly.
2. The QC is a little slower than the OBC. The OBC is around 1.4 KW charging, each QC is only 1.0 KW charging. But if you add a Y cable and use two QC's you will charge at 2.0 KW which will then be a little faster charging than your OBC or twice as fast as using one QC.
3. To charge on the road you will have to bring the QC with you.
4. The QCs are MUCH more reliable than the OBC. While I have heard of several OBCs crapping out, I have yet to hear of a QC crapping out.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thanks guys.
In my case (FXS), the Quick charger is faster at 1KW. If it saves the faulty internal charger, I may buy one.
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Thanks guys.
In my case (FXS), the Quick charger is faster at 1KW. If it saves the faulty internal charger, I may buy one.
Oh, I forgot you have a FXS. So the QC is a small advantage to your charging speed.
I normally use both, as that reduces the time the OBC is charging, so I assume the OBC will last longer if I always charge quickly with more chargers even when I am in no hurry. I normally don't use the OBC or QC alone, but I know the QC will work fine alone if the bike is keyed on for a few seconds to get the contactor to close.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Guys thanks for all replies, just as an update, I replaced the OBC (800 bucks!) and everything is back to normal again.
If this one dies again I'll probably do the tank.
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Don - Can you show how you permanently mounted the Y cable? More importantly, can you send link to where to buy dust caps for the Y connector? I ride bumpy dirt roads so the dust caps will need to stay on in those conditions.
What's the procedure? Plug in charger, turn key on, then off. That's it?
I might pick up the DeltaQ quick charger.
The QC connector is just above the motor. I find it a small hassle to get to, so I have mine connected to a "Y" cable mounted on the bike so I can then easily use one or two QCs as well as the OBC as I am now doing.
The differences will be:
1. The bikes's key will have to be on for the charging to start. As soon as it starts charging, the bike can be switched off and charging will continue. This is only if you cannot use the OBC as well. On the QC, when the top light is on, you're charging. That may take ten seconds or so after everything is connected up correctly.
2. The QC is a little slower than the OBC. The OBC is around 1.4 KW charging, each QC is only 1.0 KW charging. But if you add a Y cable and use two QC's you will charge at 2.0 KW which will then be a little faster charging than your OBC or twice as fast as using one QC.
3. To charge on the road you will have to bring the QC with you.
4. The QCs are MUCH more reliable than the OBC. While I have heard of several OBCs crapping out, I have yet to hear of a QC crapping out.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Some of the S platform Zero's have an isolation issue that is killing the onboard charger, because the charger is also connected to the CAN of the motorcycle. It's not the charger that is bad, so , most of the Zero are ok, but the ones that killed the onboard charger, will continue to do so at a slower or faster rate.
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Don - Can you show how you permanently mounted the Y cable? More importantly, can you send link to where to buy dust caps for the Y connector? I ride bumpy dirt roads so the dust caps will need to stay on in those conditions.
I don't ride my SR in the dirt and I have the sidebag mounting bars to mount to, so this probably won't do you any good,
I simply have the Y cable tie-wrapped to the mounting bars for the side bags.
The smaller connectors to the left of the left foot peg are for my Elcon chargers. They go to the batt contacts on the motor controller. I charge this bike as high as around 8.3 KW by using the two Elcons along with the two Delta Q's:
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks for the pic. I might do something similar if I can get another dust cap.
Don - Can you show how you permanently mounted the Y cable? More importantly, can you send link to where to buy dust caps for the Y connector? I ride bumpy dirt roads so the dust caps will need to stay on in those conditions.
I don't ride my SR in the dirt and I have the sidebag mounting bars to mount to, so this probably won't do you any good,
I simply have the Y cable tie-wrapped to the mounting bars for the side bags.
The smaller connectors to the left of the left foot peg are for my Elcon chargers. They go to the batt contacts on the motor controller. I charge this bike as high as around 8.3 KW by using the two Elcons along with the two Delta Q's:
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks for the pic. I might do something similar if I can get another dust cap.
This should fit, but I am not 100% sure : https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anderson-Power-Products/134G1?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvlX3nhDDO4ALNZHDn%2FFYPdgmDkHUN0H4Y%3D
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Thanks for the pic. I might do something similar if I can get another dust cap.
This should fit, but I am not 100% sure : https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anderson-Power-Products/134G1?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvlX3nhDDO4ALNZHDn%2FFYPdgmDkHUN0H4Y%3D
I will soon let you know, I just took a chance and ordered four.
After I receive them, I will post here if they fit. If not, they will go into one of my many junk boxes.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I received the dust caps today. The 879-134G1 Mfr. #:134G1 do NOT fit the DeltaQ chargers. They are too small. However, I lucked out anyway, as I bought four of them and they fit all four Anderson connectors for my Elcon chargers. See photo below:
-Don- Reno, NV
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What's the procedure? Plug in charger, turn key on, then off. That's it?
I might pick up the DeltaQ quick charger.
The QC connector is just above the motor. I find it a small hassle to get to, so I have mine connected to a "Y" cable mounted on the bike so I can then easily use one or two QCs as well as the OBC as I am now doing.
The differences will be:
1. The bikes's key will have to be on for the charging to start. As soon as it starts charging, the bike can be switched off and charging will continue. This is only if you cannot use the OBC as well. On the QC, when the top light is on, you're charging. That may take ten seconds or so after everything is connected up correctly.
2. The QC is a little slower than the OBC. The OBC is around 1.4 KW charging, each QC is only 1.0 KW charging. But if you add a Y cable and use two QC's you will charge at 2.0 KW which will then be a little faster charging than your OBC or twice as fast as using one QC.
3. To charge on the road you will have to bring the QC with you.
4. The QCs are MUCH more reliable than the OBC. While I have heard of several OBCs crapping out, I have yet to hear of a QC crapping out.
-Don- Reno, NV
I charge my Zero S with a homemade charger with a maximum charge current of about 34A. I noticed that when I act according to your instructions, the "Charging" lamp on the dashboard does not light up. Although having measured the current with current measuring tongs, I understand that charging has begun. What am I doing wrong?
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First off you're necroing old threads. Quit that. Second you're not sending an enable signal.
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I charge my Zero S with a homemade charger with a maximum charge current of about 34A. I noticed that when I act according to your instructions, the "Charging" lamp on the dashboard does not light up. Although having measured the current with current measuring tongs, I understand that charging has begun. What am I doing wrong?
Would need a lot more info. about that "homemade charger" to answer any questions to be sure about much of anything, but as MVetter says your enable signal is probably not there. But if it charges the battery, and advancing your SOC why care?
The way I use my external chargers it is the opposite issue. My charge light will blink even when I am NOT charging. But I can remove the key and charge with only the external chargers when NOT using the OBC. See here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.30)
-Don- Reno, NV
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I charge my Zero S with a homemade charger with a maximum charge current of about 34A. I noticed that when I act according to your instructions, the "Charging" lamp on the dashboard does not light up. Although having measured the current with current measuring tongs, I understand that charging has begun. What am I doing wrong?
Would need a lot more info. about that "homemade charger" to answer any questions to be sure about much of anything, but as MVetter says your enable signal is probably not there. But if it charges the battery, and advancing your SOC why care?
The way I use my external chargers it is the opposite issue. My charge light will blink even when I am NOT charging. But I can remove the key and charge with only the external chargers when NOT using the OBC. See here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.30)
-Don- Reno, NV
Did I understand correctly that in order to give the command to turn on the contactor, I must close the red and gray wires from the signal connector of the standard charger (OBC)? At the end of charging the battery, should I open these two wires again? Isn't it?
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Did I understand correctly that in order to give the command to turn on the contactor, I must close the red and gray wires from the signal connector of the standard charger (OBC)? At the end of charging the battery, should I open these two wires again? Isn't it?
Not exactly. Do this in order:
1. Turn on key normally.
2. Short red to gray wires (such as with my switch).
3. Turn off key, remove key. Contactor will stay closed with key out. Charge light will blink even when NOT charging. Will also blink when you're charging. You can now charge with or without using the OBC.
4. When done charging, open the red to gray wires (back to normal). Put key in and ride away.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Did I understand correctly that in order to give the command to turn on the contactor, I must close the red and gray wires from the signal connector of the standard charger (OBC)? At the end of charging the battery, should I open these two wires again? Isn't it?
Not exactly. Do this in order:
1. Turn on key normally.
2. Short red to gray wires (such as with my switch).
3. Turn off key, remove key. Contactor will stay closed with key out. Charge light will blink even when NOT charging. Will also blink when you're charging. You can now charge with or without using the OBC.
4. When done charging, open the red to gray wires (back to normal). Put key in and ride away.
-Don- Reno, NV
OK, I get it
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Did I understand correctly that in order to give the command to turn on the contactor, I must close the red and gray wires from the signal connector of the standard charger (OBC)? At the end of charging the battery, should I open these two wires again? Isn't it?
Not exactly. Do this in order:
1. Turn on key normally.
2. Short red to gray wires (such as with my switch).
3. Turn off key, remove key. Contactor will stay closed with key out. Charge light will blink even when NOT charging. Will also blink when you're charging. You can now charge with or without using the OBC.
4. When done charging, open the red to gray wires (back to normal). Put key in and ride away.
-Don- Reno, NV
Greetings! During balancing, the BMS board turns off the contactor and then turns it on again. Will the contactor disconnection and activation circuit work according to your instructions?
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Greetings! During balancing, the BMS board turns off the contactor and then turns it on again. Will the contactor disconnection and activation circuit work according to your instructions?
I never noticed the contactor going off and on again during a normal charge with or without the modification. But even if it does and you're concerned, you can always normal it up just before the end of the charge.
-Don- Reno, NV