ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: KuRi on January 29, 2020, 04:14:15 PM
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Hi!
I have noticed some small periodic vibrations on the left footpeg of my dsr 2020. Specially at low speeds (~30-40kmh) while maintaining the throttle at a fixed position. They are something like periodic small bumps that can be felt on my left foot.
Did you notice something similar on yours?
Thanks!
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There are very few things which can vibrate on a Zero.
Have you checked the belt for debris, teeth, and alignment?
-Crissa
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I am not a mechanical expert, so my tests are mostly visual and sometimes with some easy to use tools (caliper, belt tension meter, ...).
Everything looks more or less fine, but what I notice is like a periodic 'click" on mi left foot, linked to the belt running, at certain speeds (no matter if I am using the throttle or not).
Thanks.
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A "click" sounds different from a "vibration". Could you get the bike on a lift (rear wheel off the ground, primarily) and see about reproducing it?
A sound or video recording would be a bonus.
Offhand, it's hard to say what might be the cause from afar. The left footpeg is near the front sprocket, so there could be debris under a spot on the belt (worth clearing if you find it) or there could be a bearing issue. I'm unsure that anyone's said they felt it through the footpeg before, though.
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Sorry about referring to the problem as a "click"... it's that I don't know how to describe it, but it's not a sound, it's only a feeling. It happens at about 40kmh and 80kmh (more or less at the double speed, does that give you any idea?).
It feels like a small bump on the footpeg and it is cyclic, so it is related to the wheel/sprocket/bearings/belt. It is very noticeable without accelerating, keeping the speed at 40kmh.
If there were any debris on the sprocket, that would explain the symptons very well, although I don't understand why it happens only at certain speeds... but I have checked and there is no debris or dirty at the belt nor the sprocket :(
P.D: I can feel it also on the passenger's footpeg, mostly because it is directly connected to the same place.
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I assume you've checked belt tension and alignment. If there's nothing else obvious, I'd check with a dealer - a bearing issue on a new bike is very likely a defect covered under warranty.
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It can be a belt tension and alignment problem because I am not good enough to know it. It looks good to me, and I don't want to mess with things I don't fully understand. The dealer will check it in a few days... and I will let you know what they say, but honestly... 99% of the times they will say "this is normal", "I can't find anything wrong...", bla bla bla... a very frustrating situation I have lived with most of my bikes :-[
Thanks for your help.
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If you can align or re-align it; you could experiment with what it feels like at different out of spec settings - like on a stand or an around the block safe maneuver.
Every time you get to experience out of spec, the in-spec vibrations seem more normal.
And to me, a rhythmic pulse would seem like debris in the belt. But who knows?
Do you have someone somewhere you could compare with?
-Crissa
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A rythmic pulse! That's the best way to describe it :) And what is more important... I am almost sure the pulse was not there when I got the bike (500km ago), but who knows...
I am the only zero owner in my city! :D :D :D
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There are so many things that could cause it! Belt, motor bearing, static buildup, even a failing insulator slowly energizing a body panel like a capacitor. You could even have an artery that's being pinched next to a nerve and you're just feeling a coefficient of your heartrate matched to the hum of your bike.
Actual but one in a bazillion things that could happen.
It's just more likely a moving part, tho.
Does anyone know of a belt tuning or audio app that could find a reoccurring thrum? It seems like something someone should have thought of.
-Crissa
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Today I have noticed that the vibration/pulse is noticeable on both footpegs. The left one is heavier, but I can feel it on the right one too. The problem was that my foot position is different at left/right because of the brake. When using the same position as the left foot, I can notice the pulse too...
It is normal that I can feel it on both sides, because they are connected somehow :D
This is not very helpful diagnosing the problem, but just to let you know it :)
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Hi!
I have noticed some small periodic vibrations on the left footpeg of my dsr 2020. Specially at low speeds (~30-40kmh) while maintaining the throttle at a fixed position. They are something like periodic small bumps that can be felt on my left foot.
Did you notice something similar on yours?
Thanks!
Recently yes on my 16 DSR with 41+k miles.
Determined it’s the/a wheel bearing(s).
If you ride in a lazy zig-jag does it intensify?
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Recently yes on my 16 DSR with 41+k miles.
Determined it’s the/a wheel bearing(s).
If you ride in a lazy zig-jag does it intensify?
Hi! how did you determine it's the wheel bearings? Mine is new, 10 days of use. I am not sure if it intensifies with a small zig zag... I think it does not change too much...
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First & foremost you need to have this looked at by your dealer.
As to how I determined my issue is wheel bearing related....
There are not too many moving parts so that narrows it down quite a bit.
I can vary the intensity by varying the angle of the wheel (banked left-level-banked right).
That (to me) indicates rough bearings.
I’m thinking while banked a certain amount of thrust (side load) is imposed on the bearings and this causes an increase in roughness.
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The usual way to inspect a wheel bearing is to remove the wheel and rotate the bearing with your finger to feel any roughness in its operation. However, that might be more trouble than you want to go to. So what you could do is to raise one wheel off the ground at a time, turn it by hand and use a mechanic's stethoscope placed against the center of the wheel and listen for rough sounds. A long screwdriver touching the wheel, with the handle against your ear will also work in a pinch.
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So, now that I have a 2020 DSR, I did notice a very small vibration pulse, but I noticed it both through the seat and the footpeg.
I noticed it only while coasting without regen. It could be that the motor controller is pulsing to make sure it's aligned with the motor position without actually putting too much power into it.
For what it's worth, I noticed that the white noise effect when rolling the bike around in my garage while charging is now gone. That is also a known issue where the controller would come on and apply the white noise to determine motor position for alignment. My overall guess is that someone at Zero took on the project of keeping the controller off except when necessary, for a combination of safety and energy efficiency reasons.
Does this sound like what you're experiencing, KuRi?
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Hi BrianTRice! Yes, it sounds something similar, but I can't feel it through the seat (I have the touring seat). I can notice it also while coasting with the minimum throttle needed to keep the speed at ~40kmh. It is not always strong enough to feel it if you don't concentrate on it, but it is always there.
BTW my bike DOES the white noise rolling the bike while charging.
Do you notice any other differences with 2016 DSR (acceleration, speed, weight?).
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can I ask you a favor? Could you please post a pic of your belt alignment when looking at the belt from behind? Similar to the pic I posted in the belt alignment thread I create some days ago (pls post the pic in that same thread for others to have the reference also). Next week I will be bringing the bike to the dealer and I want to make sure my belt is correctly aligned.
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Thanks!!!
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Hi BrianTRice! Yes, it sounds something similar, but I can't feel it through the seat (I have the touring seat). I can notice it also while coasting with the minimum throttle needed to keep the speed at ~40kmh. It is not always strong enough to feel it if you don't concentrate on it, but it is always there.
BTW my bike DOES the white noise rolling the bike while charging.
Do you notice any other differences with 2016 DSR (acceleration, speed, weight?).
Okay, I'm going to suggest that this is the hypothesis to go with for now, because your experience matches what I've noticed. I'll check my bike further to see if I can understand it better. Whatever it is, it feels intentional, like a timed pulse.
As far as changes from 2016, I'd say:
- 10% more power reported feels right.
- 10-15% more range reported seems right with my trips so far.
- The belt does feel subtly more robust.
- Range loss (from internal resistance) in the cold seems reduced, but I'm unsure by how much.
- The turn signal relay is a new component that makes no clicking noise at all! Will document soon.
- The lower front plastics now have a plastic rivet with plastic insert screw instead of the bolts, which used to lead to cracking of the plastics.
can I ask you a favor? Could you please post a pic of your belt alignment when looking at the belt from behind? Similar to the pic I posted in the belt alignment thread I create some days ago (pls post the pic in that same thread for others to have the reference also). Next week I will be bringing the bike to the dealer and I want to make sure my belt is correctly aligned.
My belt does look well-aligned. I'll post a photo while on mobile since that's easier than web/desktop...
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Hi! Sorry to ask again, but after coming back from the dealer, he said that everything is normal, but the vibration is still there. It is a little bit annoying and I would like to know how many of us have noticed something similar...
My belt is completely resting on the left side of the front and rear sprocket. Dealer says that this is how it should be, but most people on this forum suggests a 1mm of space between sprockets and belt. Could this be the reason?
Thanks!
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It is very easy to make the adjustment to the rear wheel alignment to get the 1mm gap, so just go ahead and do that and see if that has any affect on the pulsating you're describing. You want to have that small gap between the belt and rear pulley anyway.
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I have no experience with that and I have no way to lift the rear wheel... and with a 1 month old bike, I am scared :D
I know that I will end up doing it, but only when I feel more confident with what I am doing. Thanks!
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Some more information, in case you can help me with the diagnosis before I visit the dealer again (there is no dealer in my city and they come only some days of the month)
The vibration/pulse is only there while the motor is engaged (throttle on or regen on), if I set the regen to 0, the vibration dissapears completely when coasting no matter the speed. This also means that I can hear the motor acting (metallic noise) when the vibrations starts. What really bothers me is that is very very noticeable when the speed is 40kmh or 80kmh. At other speeds, is harder to note (but it is also there ofc).
Can this mean that the problem is with the motor/bearins or can still be a belt tension/alignment issue?
Thanks again.
Regards.
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Sooo.... yesterday I decided to give it a try and lower the tension on the belt and try to align the rear wheel (and rear belt :D).
I think the belt was too tight. The belt was all the way to the left and after calibrating and taking some measures and decided to align the belt a little (the left side was too tight, so I loose that side a little bit more). This improved the alignment of the wheel on the front sprocket (now it has some space) but it keeps all the way to the left on the rear side. This ended in a good wheel to swingarm alignment and some less tension on the belt.
However now the bike vibrates a lot less... I only notice sporadic vibrations on the left footpeg and the low speed vibration and noise is "almost" gone.
So... my conclusion is: the Belt was too tight (and maybe the alignment was a little off also). Now it drives better and smooth.
I think it is not perfect, and surely an expert would adjust it perfectly... but at least I know that it was belt-wheel alignment related... I hope I have not screwed anything and that it won't broke anytime soon. This is the first time ever I adjust a motorcycle rear wheel.
THANKS!!! to all of you for your help and patience!
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Thanks; I've turned this into one of the troubleshooting symptom pages on the unofficial manual:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Category:Footpeg_Vibration (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Category:Footpeg_Vibration)
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Footpeg_Vibration (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Footpeg_Vibration)
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I noticed the belt looked a little loose, and I have bought the Krikit tension tool and measured the belt tension. It was just under 20kg and I think it was a little too low.
I have raised the tension to 25kg and the vibrations are again a little more present, but I don't want to ride with a lower tension than the specs suggests. However the bike is more responsive now.
Cheers!