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[quixotic]

Possibly a dumb question, but if I go to a 240v system in my garage, can I simply splice a 240v plug on to the plug that goes to the charge port on the Zero?  Also, can I use the same gauge wire that a typical computer uses?  I'm assuming that 240v has less amperage, and thus the spade connection at the bike end will heat up less (but maybe I'm totally wrong on that).

[TheRan]

You can do that, but the only benefit (as you mentioned) is less heat in the cable and charging port, no faster charger with the stock charger. Why not just get some 120v outlets put in the garage as well? They'll no doubt come in useful for other things in the future.

[Crissa]

Yes, this is what I did.  https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10041.msg90390

The wattage of the charger is static, so yes, it uses less amperage.  I still built it out of 20a parts, though.  I used an electric guitar amp cord because it was both long and flexible for the end piece.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078V9K14V

I also wired in a switch so I could turn it on and off manually.  My plan is to put a timer into it as well, but I decided to get the cable in place first.  I used this switch, designed to suppress arcing, since that's what high draws do.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LETGVY

I also used a 30a type of plug, for the far end, because that's what my generator had, and then used full four-conductor cable.  You know, just in case I want to upgrade it in the future.

-Crissa

PS, there is some anecdotal evidence that running the charger at the higher voltage makes it last longer.  That would make sense, as it would suffer less heat fatigue.  Not arc-faulting the plug is another benefit; giving less shock to the system.

PPS, I got a little derailed on that thread about the ground-fault detection.  It would be better, but there are whole-house or per-circuit solutions and I haven't found one yet that works.  Ehh, for when I get an electrician into the utility box again later this year.  It's now code to have those in the box, but it wasn't just a few years ago, so I have to live with what I've got.

[quixotic]

Thanks Chrissa.  I think I'll try the switch idea if I put in 240.  Theran, I already have lots of 120 plugs in the garage (they're what are heating up the spade connectors to fairly concerning temperatures.). 

[KrazyEd]

Crissa seems to have the build perfect. As for the person who said that the ONLY benefit would be fewer amps and less heat, I would partially disagree.
It will have fewer amps and less heat, that is true. Also true that you won't get much of a boost is charge speed. The MAJOR plus is that you will be
keeping the stock charger MUCH cooler. If you look at stock chargers that have been taken apart after they cease to function, the insides all look like they
have been hit with a flame thrower.. That is a LOT of heat over a LONG period of time.I only use the stock charger on my FX with 120. If I use the onboard
charger on my S or SR, it is only on 208~240 volt. When charging at home, I use a Zero QuiQ charger that charges at around 1 KW. Even though it shows
as DRAWING around 1KW, the Zero S is showing 784 watts. Have been keeping it between 40% and 70%, only topping off when going on a long ride. Took
a nice ride on it yesterday, running it down to 0% so that I could do a nice slow charge, calibration.

[TheRan]

Do we actually know that using the charger on a higher voltage results in less heat, or are we just assuming that because the current is lower? With either voltage the charger has the convert it from AC to DC and reduce the voltage (more so in the case of 240v) and isn't it the conversion that creates the heat? And if so, is going from 240v AC to 96-116v DC better than 120v AC to 96-116v DC?

[DonTom]

Do we actually know that using the charger on a higher voltage results in less heat, or are we just assuming that because the current is lower? With either voltage the charger has the convert it from AC to DC and reduce the voltage (more so in the case of 240v) and isn't it the conversion that creates the heat? And if so, is going from 240v AC to 96-116v DC better than 120v AC to 96-116v DC?

In the case of the Zeros, as the voltage is increased up to its 250 VAC limit, the current will drop in proportion keeping the  power the same on the input. Less current means less heat on the input, as well as less losses. Can run a longer cord on 240 VAC as there will be less power lost at the higher voltage.

The output of the charger will be the same with any  input voltage within its accepted range, so there is no difference in charging the battery and the heat of the output circuits.

So less heat on the connector where you plug in with 240 VAC as the input current drops. But the same heat as always on the DC output charging the battery with either input voltage as there the current will be the same there as always with any AC voltage within its accepted range.

So it really depends on what part of the charger if there is less heat with a higher voltage on the input. But higher voltage means less power losses on the input because of the less heat because of the lower current. The DC output stages don't see any difference between the 120 VAC or  240 VAC on the AC input side.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Less heat is less heat.  And in this case, it's less heat where we don't want heat at all.  We care less about the heat going into the battery pack (except on hot days, and well, heating up even more parts would make that worse!)

And of course, thicker, more resilient cables will carry high loads longer.  Overbuilding cables when you can is always more durable.  It's nice to have a little switch to flip now.  I'm not qualified to describe it, but arc-faults do propagate some sort of damage downstream as well as at the point of break.

-Crissa

PS, not to mention most US houses have a 220 outlet in the garage area already.  Usually for a dryer, sometimes for tools, but often disused.  It's underpowered for some car chargers, but it's perfect for us.  Using copper that was just sitting around doing nothing saves on circuit load elsewhere.

[DonTom]

PS, not to mention most US houses have a 220 outlet in the garage area already.  Usually for a dryer, sometimes for tools, but often disused.  It's underpowered for some car chargers, but it's perfect for us.  Using copper that was just sitting around doing nothing saves on circuit load elsewhere.

None of my three houses did, until I had them installed.

They all have Mud Rooms inside the house and that is where I find my 240 VAC. For a while I ran a 240 VAC extension cord for 240 VAC charging into the garages. I also used it for my Tesla for a while. IIRC, it could charge at 32 amps (7,680 watts, the same as many J-1772's) Now I have Tesla chargers installed on 60 amp circuits that I can convert to J-1772 for the bikes. I had to convert the Dryer outlet to a NEMA 1450 after the dryer extension cord.

Now, I can charge the Tesla at 48 amps (~12 KW) and J-1772 at 32 amps at all three houses.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

Less heat is less heat.  And in this case, it's less heat where we don't want heat at all.  We care less about the heat going into the battery pack (except on hot days, and well, heating up even more parts would make that worse!)

But it's not less heat on most of the charger circuity to use 240 VAC--just the input side. I doubt the OBC  will last noticeably longer on 240 VAC than it does on 120 VAC, but the 240 VAC does have a slight advantage.

IMO, the biggest advantage is to run more external chargers so the OBC is not on for nearly as long.  Same heat on OBC but for a lot less time. I normally use my external quick chargers even when I am in no hurry to charge. And they are ran from 240 VAC anyway, from my Tesla-Tap and Tesla Wall Connector.

-Don-  Reno, NV