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[Too little too late]

From original post on 4/28.
The issues were slowly going away. After two battery depleting trips from Galt to Lincoln and back, and a few other short trips here and there, the light show was nearly gone. The indicators that were still hanging in there: rapid flashing of the triangle of doom and the ready light in a wig wag pattern when charging, and every time I stopped the bike the ready light would go out for about three seconds and then return. Prior to this when I stopped, I had to watch carefully for an illusive ready light. I learned to start the bike slightly pulling just before the traffic light would change so I didn't upset the cars behind. Well yesterday was a sad day. With 100% charge I took a short trip to the post office, and almost got back. Waiting at a red light - ready light is on - the traffic light changes - I start a left hand turn - bang the bike go's completely dead - the rear wheel stops turning - I nearly fly over the handle bars - I nearly lay the bike down - I can barely push the bike to the sidewalk - the motor is cogging and doesn't want to turn - I park it in the smog dudes parking lot. Smog dude is a friend of mine, gives me a ride home. Back at 5:30 to trailer the bike home.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Huh. I'm glad you're okay.

This must be a follow up to this thread: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10107

This commentary is a little too dense and idiomatic to follow, but it's clear that you had a lock-up, which may not be an electrical problem but a bearing/mechanical one.

Again, unclear because this dense paragraph mixes up a bunch of issues. I encourage you to try to unpack this for us, and maybe someone with more time can help you through it.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Actually, here's a quick diagnostic question:
- If the rear wheel resists turning, is the controller engaged?
- Rephrasing: does the rear wheel spin freely if the bike is keyed off and unplugged?

"bang" suggests a sound. Was there a sound?

"dead" suggests all the lights went out. Did the instrument cluster and lighting stay on or did the bike go dark?

I can see two diagnoses:
- Bearing failure, which is mechanical.
- True fault to ground which destroyed something in the power train, perhaps the motor controller.

Please help clarify.

[Too little too late]

It's a 2017 S with not very many miles on it. The bike is dead. Nothing works. Key does nothing. I know the cogging is electrical. It's like the electronic braking on the wind generator. It electrically resists turning. I don't know where to begin taking it apart. Well no, the first thing is to bring it into the living room. I've had the seat and tank off before, when adding accessories. Is the controller over the rear tire? Would that be the first place to look? If not, where? I would appreciate any input. Thanks, Ed

[Crissa]

Was there ozone scent?  Burned plastics?

Does it respond to being plugged in?

What you described sounds like a catastrophic fault to ground.

Be cautious, the path to ground may still exist.  Try not to be the short path from the frame to the actual ground if you do try to plug it in.

-Crissa

[Too little too late]

I've heard of bikes catching fire, so I'm not going to plug it in. Bang? Yes there was a sound, but don't ask me to describe it. Idiomatic? Sorry I'm a writer. Everything comes out as a story. I'll try to answer questions without too much of a story line. Gosh it's only been one day and I miss it already.

[Crissa]

Yeah, that's why I built a charging cable with a switch in it.

It's important for the battery health that it be dealt with and recharged as soon as possible.

A dealer service center should know how to make it safe.

-Crissa

[Curt]

One moral is: don't continue to ride a bike when it's doing all it can to tell you something is wrong!

Last week my 500 EXC Fault Indicator kept saying "coolant temperature sensor out of range". My response was to replace the coolant temperature sensor and keep riding. Bzzzzt! Coolant was all in the oil and vice versa.

[ESokoloff]

........ The bike is dead. Nothing works. Key does nothing.


I know the cogging is electrical. It's like the electronic braking on the wind generator. It electrically resists turning. .........

The first 3 sentences contradict the next 3.

Not that it’s related but......
I have a 2016 DSR & it has on rare occasion exhibited total loss of power (as if the key has been switched off) that I’m surmising is an intermittent open connection of a wire leading to the key switch.     

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

DO NOT bring it inside a closed structure like a house.

If the battery catches fire, you’ll need to drag it outside and let it burn. You cannot easily extinguish a battery fire and it would burn your house down.

Also do not key on the bike.

If you want to examine the controller, it is inside the tail under the seat. The only troubleshooting I can recommend is to unbolt the seat and examine the controller without touching it.

Since, however, you did not answer my questions clearly, I have to assume you don’t understand how to troubleshoot reasonably. Sorry, I just have to make a call that you’re going to misinterpret any request or instruction, and that you are entirely responsible for whatever actions or inaction you take at this point.

From what I can tell, this is beyond your skill level to deal with. Take it to a dealer as soon as practicable.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Actually there is one thing I can recommend. Remove the seat and pull the high voltage fuses that are on the left side of the rear of the tank. Check the official owner’s manual for their locations.

If you can perform a continuity check on the fuses, that will tell whether they’re blown.

In any case, I do not recommend reinserting the fuses. I think you should let the isolation by fuse removal continue until you can get the bike to a technician.

I cannot stress enough that I do not recommend doing anything on your own in this case without proper advisement.

You have not clarified whether the wheel spins freely while the bike is deenergized. That would tell whether you had a bearing seize which might have precipitated the electrical fault. You need to determine that.

Do not paraphrase your interpretation of what’s happening. Tell us what conditions happen under what directly observable circumstances.

[Too little too late]

I do know how to use an OHM meter, and I will try to find those high voltage fuses so I can check them. Key on or key off the bike is completely dead, the rear wheel doesn't want to turn, and it's not a bearing. The faster I try to push it, the more it resists turning. It's like pushing thru molasses. It's magnetic resistance in the motor, so there must be a short across two of the terminals. And good thinking Brian, I won't bring it in the house. I will take a look at the controller, and I will look for evidence of catastrophic failure. Note: I did repair my wife's Nissan Leaf, but not down to component level. I replaced the onboard charger. So I'm gonna give this a shot and see if I can find out what happened to this bike. Thanks for the help. Ed

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

A short across the motor terminals would be through the controller. I think your controller is toast.

I'm not entirely convinced that bearings weren't involved. I don't know why, but I'm just someone reading a post on the internet and thinking about it. I assume you're inferring the short/magnetic factor by feel.

So, I guess here's one thought:
- IF you remove all HV fuses.
- and THEN you safely uncover the controller and verify no voltage at the controller B+ and B- terminals.
- THEN if you remove the motor lugs from the A, B, and C terminals on the controller (and tape them off)
- Re-test the rolling of the bike with it keyed off to see whether there's still resistance.
-* If the resistance goes away, the controller is basically ruined.
-* If there's still resistance, the motor is generating the resistance internally (via induction or bearings).

And now I'm recalling that controller fires while riding tend to end the way you've described. So I guess that's what's worth assuming. You have a 2018 Zero S which for a controller replacement will require dealer reprogramming (custom firmware for Zero IPM).

[Auriga]

I believe this can also happen if the battery is shorted to the frame or ground. Be very careful touching ANYTHING in there if you suspect the rear wheel is locked up electronically with the bike keyed off.

[Crissa]

If the wheel is locked up electrically, there's very unlikely any short that is going through the frame.  It indicates the motor still has resistance.

On an electric bike, always be careful of touching contacts and metal parts and becoming a short yourself.

-Crissa