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[KrazyEd]

I have mentioned this before, but, from photos and personal experience I believe that the problem is that since everyone wants the bike to charge as fast as possible,
Zero puts as much into the charger that they feel that they can " safely " pull out. This is why the plug gets hot. If you look at photos of disassembled chargers on the
Unofficial Manual, you can see how much gets burned up inside. My 2016 SR had the stock charger replaced several times under warranty. I no longer use the stock
charger on 120V, only 240. If using 120V, I use a QuiQ charger. I will use the stock charger on my 2013 FX as it is only half the power of the SR. My 2014 S has not had
an issue and I charge it the same as my SR. If you have a Dedicated socket, then you can rewire it to provide 240V to the Standard outlet and you will be golden.

[DonTom]

I've fixed the video link.  Man, I should just not trust the 'share' buttons, they often fail me.

-Crissa

He was not accurate when he said "all our boxes have 240 VAC". He has never been to my house in SSF.

There is no 240 VAC in that box anywhere.  To get to 240 VAC  at that house, you will need a 15 foot ladder.

But every house is 240 VAC at least close to it, because the 120 VAC is simply a centertap of the electric company power transformer near each house. The 120 VAC is made at the house property connection, it doesn't come from the power company as 120 VAC.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I have mentioned this before, but, from photos and personal experience I believe that the problem is that since everyone wants the bike to charge as fast as possible,
Zero puts as much into the charger that they feel that they can " safely " pull out. This is why the plug gets hot. If you look at photos of disassembled chargers on the
Unofficial Manual, you can see how much gets burned up inside. My 2016 SR had the stock charger replaced several times under warranty. I no longer use the stock
charger on 120V, only 240. If using 120V, I use a QuiQ charger. I will use the stock charger on my 2013 FX as it is only half the power of the SR. My 2014 S has not had
an issue and I charge it the same as my SR. If you have a Dedicated socket, then you can rewire it to provide 240V to the Standard outlet and you will be golden.

If it's always the same component  that craps out first, there are probably some small things they can do to increase reliability a little there, but to really increase the reliability of the charger  would take more room and weight, or at least a fan and often the fans are not that reliable--first thing to crap out in my Energica. Or reduce its power output. No matter what is done, it will be at a cost. External chargers, such as the Delta Q's  are more reliable for obvious reasons. Larger, weight more and have less output than the OBCs.

If the OBC's were more reliable, than Zero  could be tempted to increase the output to get lower charge times, again making them less reliable but probably better for sales as we like to look at specs and reliability is rarely listed as a spec.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

The 3kW charging module (Rapid Charge Module) on the FST platform (SRF and SRS) is a totally different vendor and technology generation (switching solid state power supply) than the Calex/GWP 1.3kW charger on the SDS platform (more analogous to a full wave bridge rectifier).

AFAIK, there is no way possible that the 1.3KW charger is just a full wave bridge or just a rectifier circuit.  If it were, then it would blow up at 240 VAC if it also worked on 120 VAC.

Without any evidence showing otherwise, I will assume all the EV chargers are made from switching-mode  power supplies as they are the only type of power supplies (AFAIK) that can reduce the current as the voltage is increased, so you get your 1.3 KW with any voltage between 100 and 240 VAC.

If it were just  a simple circuit, with  240 VAC you would get 2.6 KW out of that 1.3 KW charger, for perhaps two  seconds or so before something gives out and permanently damages the charger.

Is there a schematic of the Caltax charger somewhere? I assume it too is a switching power supply type of charger as I see no other possibility of how it can accept any voltage from 100 to 240 VAC with no increase in power.

As you know, volts times amps is watts, and from that it proves what happens:

120 VAC times 11 amps=1,320 watts.

In a normal linear power supply/ charger circuit at 240 VAC this will happen:

240 VAC times 11 amps=2,640 watts from a 1.3 KW charger. It blows out in seconds.

It's even a lot more severe  than that, as a circuit will normally draw MORE current as the voltage is increased (voltage squared over the resistance in ohms=watts) so in reality you're even well over that 2.64 KW on that 1.3 KW charger.

But with the Calex charger, we know the current goes down with more voltage to keep the wattage constant, so it cannot go over the 1.3 KW rating of the charger.   So if not a type of switching power supply, that can be designed to do such, how do they do it?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

He was not accurate when he said "all our boxes have 240 VAC". He has never been to my house in SSF.

...And he covers that.  You had a very nonstandard installation which is not code and no longer considered safe.  So it's very rare.

-Crissa

And for the nth time, how you describe watts is not how wattage of components work.

[DonTom]

  You had a very nonstandard installation which is not code and no longer considered safe.  So it's very rare.

It met code for 1943 and that is all that was required in a 1943 house.  Very few houses in CA meet the current codes for 2020. In fact, don't all new houses in CA have to now come ready for a L2  EV charger by code?

Yep, I just looked it up. And since 2015. So most  houses built before 2015 are not meeting 2020 codes.

And for the nth time, how you describe watts is not how wattage of components work.

Which  part was not accurate, IYO?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Oh, look, another semantic argument derailing a thread. Please, this dilutes the value of the thread and the forum when people quibble.

This thread is about the charger. Take it offline or somewhere else.

[DonTom]

This thread is about the charger.

And so was my message.

-Don-

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The 3kW charging module (Rapid Charge Module) on the FST platform (SRF and SRS) is a totally different vendor and technology generation (switching solid state power supply) than the Calex/GWP 1.3kW charger on the SDS platform (more analogous to a full wave bridge rectifier).

AFAIK, there is no way possible that the 1.3KW charger is just a full wave bridge or just a rectifier circuit.  If it were, then it would blow up at 240 VAC if it also worked on 120 VAC.

Try posting something useful for a change by examining my toasted charger from my 2016 DSR and assessing how it works and what components are identifiable:
- https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Calex_Charger/Damage_Report

If you want, I still have this in my garage for closer examination. I'm here to corroborate findings, not just to believe whatever someone claims.

[DonTom]

Try posting something useful for a change by examining my toasted charger from my 2016 DSR and assessing how it works and what components are identifiable:
- https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Calex_Charger/Damage_Report

If you want, I still have this in my garage for closer examination. I'm here to corroborate findings, not just to believe whatever someone claims.

Thanks for that. It proves beyond any possible doubt that it is indeed a switching power supply used as a charger.  The coils and IC's are more than enough to prove such.

But it is difficult to tell what failed first by those photos, because many things fried at once, which is the norm for switching power supply failures.  When one part shorts out, it usually  takes at least a half dozen other parts with it. The most common failures are shorted diodes and the next most common are electrolytic capacitors shorting out. But it's usually  difficult to even tell what blew first  between those two, because a shorted capacitor can blow a diode from the overload and a shorted diode can short out an electrolytic  capacitor from the excessive ripple.

The third most common failure would be the high power transistors (underside photo, the two items with three leads each under the small heat sink, but I see nothing burnt in that area on yours).

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I am looking again at your charger and have a question, since I cannot see in 3-D here.

Near the top of your "topside" board, just a little left of center, to the right and just above the worse part of the burnt board (to the right and just above the burn) , I see two round items next to each other.

About how high are they? I am trying to figure out what those two components  are, as they look almost flat here since I cannot see it in 3D.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Don’t tell me what it “proves”, tell me what you literally see. Identify components and functions like a professional and spell out why you infer what you do.

Give me this raw, literal assessment, and I’ll take closer photos and possibly dig up more.

I’ve listened to too many technicians and EEs with years of experience spout off about something they took a quick look at, and found through cross-interviewing that they were sometimes completely wrong, recklessly casual in their interpretation, or mostly just arrogant and condescendingly short.

[TheRan]

I'd just like to point out that just because a component failed because of heat or even caught fire doesn't mean it happened because the charger got too hot. Pretty much any electrical failure (except for perhaps a mechanical disconnect), no matter the cause, is going to result in an excess of heat. Take a hammer to a phone or pour water on a laptop and chances are you'll get smoke.

[DonTom]

tell me what you literally see.

I already did. So what more are you asking?

"Identify components and functions"  I did some of that also. The two items I asked about, I am waiting for you on. If they are higher than they look, they are most likely electrolytic capacitors as the ones shown below.

Here is another switching power supply. You can see countless similarities  between it and  the OBC, such as the coils and ICs that I already mentioned. All it takes is a quick glance to tell if it's a switching or linear power supply. The designs are not even close between the two. Far less parts in the linear supply.

A switching power supply uses a high frequency (perhaps 500 Khz or higher) so the transformers / coils can be very small, yet be very efficient. And CAN (but not always) be designed for a wide input voltage range withOUT increasing the power, as with EV chargers such as a Zero SR/DS so it won't go over the power ratings of the 1.3 KW charger. Or can be designed to increase the power with more voltage, such as with the SR/F and SR/S so they can charge at 1.5 KW on 120 VAC but 3.0 (or 6KW with the premium models) at 240 VAC.

A linear power supply does not raise the frequency (usually 60 hz)  and use large heavy transformers but are MUCH more reliable and even when they do crap out not as many parts are damaged.   And have a very narrow input voltage range. And usually has FAR less components, but there are exceptions such as when needed for multiple heavy duty outputs. It is not possible to have the wide range of input voltages with a liner power supply without doing something such as changing a transformer tap on the input or something like that, which will NOT be automatic as it is on EV chargers.

So switching power supplies are the best for EV charging for many reasons, but linear supplies are a lot more reliable.

An old 12 volt car battery charger would be an example of a linear power supply. And they lasted forever, but were heavy and had only a few parts inside. Just one heavy transformer and a couple of rectifiers.

So what more do you want to know?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I'd just like to point out that just because a component failed because of heat or even caught fire doesn't mean it happened because the charger got too hot. Pretty much any electrical failure (except for perhaps a mechanical disconnect), no matter the cause, is going to result in an excess of heat. Take a hammer to a phone or pour water on a laptop and chances are you'll get smoke.

Yep! An electrical surge can blow a diode and then short out so many other parts it burns up the PC board, even if everything was nice and  cool to start with.

But still less heat will usually help the OBC last longer, but there are always exceptions where something else can make it crap out. Possible even when new and cool, but less likely.

-Don-  Reno, NV