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[RZ]

Would regular fast charging a Livewire - lets say 100 fast charges over a couple of years - have a detrimental effect on battery life and capacity and/or charger life?

[MVetter]

It shouldn't at all. More important is how the battery is cared for/stored during the non-charging times.

[ADVENTURESonZERO]

Would regular fast charging a Livewire - lets say 100 fast charges over a couple of years - have a detrimental effect on battery life and capacity and/or charger life?

I have over 25k miles on my ELW, and a LOT of fast charging and some serious touring - my battery health is at 98%

[heroto]

It helps that LW DC charging isn't very fast.

[SwampNut]

Everything has a measurable effect on battery longevity, so I assume the question is what has a really noticeable effect.  I've spent a lot of time studying and working with lithium batteries, and what they do over time.  Every fast charge takes a bit more out of them than slow charge, but unless it's REALLY fast, it's not going to be major.  Tesla has documented this pretty well and hundreds of fast charges do have a couple percentage points more loss than not fast charging.

Charging to 100% and leaving it there will do far more to reduce life.

Leaving a battery near zero also is terrible.

Repeated HOT fast charging is also tough.  If you can let a battery cool before charging, that's good.

Bottom line though, is enjoy your bike and don't go crazy with anxiety over it.  I had battery care anxiety with my E mountain bike, and realized I was hurting my enjoyment.  How stupid, right?  Now it's fun first, then I think about how to care for it that won't impact enjoyment.

[MVetter]

As I'm sure you're aware there are tons of variables, and I agree with everything you said. I would point out something I've said many times before: The LiveWire One has some of the best thermal management out there. The pack sheds a LOT of heat while riding due to some very clever engineering. Additionally the charge algorithm cuts back in a very predictable stairstep method as it progresses to higher SoC. I am minimally concerned about the effects of fast charging a LW1.

[SwampNut]

The pack sheds a LOT of heat while riding due to some very clever engineering.

Agreed.  It seems as good as a Tesla, which is known to run 300-500k miles even with multiple daily Supercharging (NY taxis for example).  The only other unknown is the battery chemistry, but assuming it's good, and because it's well cooled, it's not going to suffer.

Yesterday I ran my Zero to 110% and down to 2%, which bothers me a little since it's NOT well cooled.  But I let it chill for a while before slow charging it overnight.

[princec]

My Zero battery never got more than slightly lukewarm to the touch (UK climate here). Apparently the new Zero batteries are considerably better even than that and have an additional cooling channel in them.

Cas

[SwampNut]

My Zero battery never got more than slightly lukewarm to the touch (UK climate here). Apparently the new Zero batteries are considerably better even than that and have an additional cooling channel in them.

Cas

That's actually potentially a bad thing.  What you care about is the individual cells' internal temperature.  The Zero has to dump it through conductivity through the case.  A cool outer case COULD mean that the cells are hot and can't transfer energy.  It doesn't mean that the battery is not hot.  An example in RC batteries is that the "soft" cells in my airplanes and helicopters get very hot, but the ones in my cars which have a hard plastic shell don't feel hot.  But I know for sure that the internal temp is very hot.

This is probably part of the reason that Zero doesn't have DCFS.  It would likely overheat it.

[princec]

Well, yes. But the temperature display for the battery is also on the dash, and it never gets far.

Cas

[MVetter]

That's actually potentially a bad thing.  What you care about is the individual cells' internal temperature.  The Zero has to dump it through conductivity through the case.  A cool outer case COULD mean that the cells are hot and can't transfer energy.  It doesn't mean that the battery is not hot.  An example in RC batteries is that the "soft" cells in my airplanes and helicopters get very hot, but the ones in my cars which have a hard plastic shell don't feel hot.  But I know for sure that the internal temp is very hot.

This is probably part of the reason that Zero doesn't have DCFS.  It would likely overheat it.

I think we can both agree what you're looking for is the minimal temperature delta for cells. And Zero's latest pack is an improvement. With all previous monoliths they had 4 smaller bricks inside aka a giant cube. With the SR/F platform they started trying to address this by running large aluminum struts through the core that connected to the outer heat sinks in an attempt to alleviate the heat in the center. The bigger breakthrough is the new 17.3 packs because the cells are entirely different and Zero has reconfigured things significantly. Gone are the 4 small bricks; they've been replaced by 2 large sets of very tall cells (Farasis P73). Basically think like two large fat pizza boxes side by side. It's my understanding there's actually a cooling channel that runs in the middle of the pack now and I've even heard rumors of fans to help move the air.

[SwampNut]

I've even heard rumors of fans to help move the air.

No rumor, I can hear them.  They cycle up fast at the start, I suppose to test/calibrate speed, then stop.  Then they spin up as needed.  Some people have had a problem with the noise they make, such as when charging outside a motel room.

Well, yes. But the temperature display for the battery is also on the dash, and it never gets far.

Cas

Can you see this during charging?  I've never looked.

[MVetter]

No rumor, I can hear them.  They cycle up fast at the start, I suppose to test/calibrate speed, then stop.  Then they spin up as needed.  Some people have had a problem with the noise they make, such as when charging outside a motel room.

Well the AC chargers have always had fans on the SR/F platform. I'm referring to another fan in the battery area moving air around for the 17.3 packs.

[SwampNut]

No rumor, I can hear them.  They cycle up fast at the start, I suppose to test/calibrate speed, then stop.  Then they spin up as needed.  Some people have had a problem with the noise they make, such as when charging outside a motel room.

Well the AC chargers have always had fans on the SR/F platform. I'm referring to another fan in the battery area moving air around for the 17.3 packs.

Oh, good point, I really don't know where the fan noise is coming from.  Google is not helping me with any current photos, only old ones.

[MVetter]

The charger ones are up in the little vents above the battery which is where the "Flat 6" is located. They added a thermal barrier between the charging units and the battery this time around so they don't repeat the fiasco that is the Calex on the Gen 2 models, but they need active cooling of fans.