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[princec]

It's not fire that is putting premiums up, it is battery damage. When an EV takes a prang, if there's any damage whatsoever to the battery pack, the entire unit is written off. This has caused repair costs of EVs to be considerably higher than ICE vehicles, and so everyone's EV insurance has rocketed in the last 12 months.

Much of this is the fault of the manufacturers who aren't doing quite enough to mitigate this sort of damage...

Cas

[SwampNut]

and so everyone's EV insurance has rocketed in the last 12 months.

Um no, no it has not.

[TheRan]

He's talking about the UK, you're American. I suppose it's understandable you'd get confused with how quickly this thread has gotten off topic.

[SwampNut]

What, equating a vape pen fire with an EV is totally on topic and not confusing!!   

[princec]

Yeah not sure where the vape pen fire bit came from there But yes, here in the UK, damage repairs are what have caused our EV premiums to almost double in the last 12 months, totally wiping out any savings in fuel pricing and zero road tax...

Cas

[Specter]

The commonality is the lithium batteries.

Id not rely on the road tax bonus for long, especially as E cars are becoming more and more common.  I think they are going to probably start taxing you per mile / km when you renew your tags for the year, that way they get their money out of the E crowd, at least that'd be the easiest and most forward way of taxing folks.

Aaron

[Grauteufel]

Its not just the UK, its the same here in Aus. I've read that EVs are just more likely to be written off for any chassis damage as the battery is often a chassis member. Take the hyundai kona (only one i know as pure EV and pure ICE), on same spec level the insurance on the ICE is $1500ish per year, the EV is $2200ish. This is more than the 39% purchase price difference.

[TheRan]

From April 2025 we'll be paying the lowest level of "road tax" of £22 per year. Not a huge amount but yet another thing to discourage them. I don't remember when they got rid of the EV grant but I imagine that also had a big effect, that was up to a £2k saving I think in the beginning. They say now that the tax money will go towards improving the charging infrastructure, as always it's hard to trust the government but they have to do something if they're going to succeed with banning ICE vehicles.

[princec]

Yep, the grant vanished last year and sales instantly plummeted off a cliff.

I still don't know why they don't just tax tyres. The one thing every vehicle needs, wears out according to how much you drive, and nobody needs to spy on where you go or how often. And if that makes tightarses buy longer lasting tyres, that's all well and good, because they're a major source of environmental pollution at every step of their production and consumption.

Cas

[SwampNut]

Tires vary in price greatly, and also disproportionately to wear, quite often.  Our BMW had crazy expensive tires, but gave maybe 18k miles at best.  Our Smart car has the cheapest damn tires and they look like they will go 60k.  There's also the matter of replacing them if they get damaged, and now you're double-taxed.  Oh, and the Smart, being low-mile, got new tires before being worn out because they were simply old.  In my area, old tires do not do well because of heat.  So again, double taxed for no miles.

[numist]

Tires vary in price greatly, and also disproportionately to wear, quite often.  Our BMW had crazy expensive tires, but gave maybe 18k miles at best.  Our Smart car has the cheapest damn tires and they look like they will go 60k.  There's also the matter of replacing them if they get damaged, and now you're double-taxed.  Oh, and the Smart, being low-mile, got new tires before being worn out because they were simply old.  In my area, old tires do not do well because of heat.  So again, double taxed for no miles.

So a tire tax is also progressive by nature? What's not to like?

[princec]

The bit where they go round and round and wear out is only one aspect of tyre tax. The production and disposal of tyres is a massive problem, so at least a generous proportion of any tyre tax should be set aside to deal with it. One bike tyre only lasts 1/5th the duration of a car tyre but takes almost exactly the same amount of resources to create and dispose of and leaves exactly the same amount of particulate pollution kicking around in the environment.

Looking back at my history of tyre usage I'd say that complaining about double taxation after a puncture or because you bought sports tyres is just whatabouttery. It's a simple solution, and by and large, it will cost everyone about the same, and everyone fairly according to use in the grand scheme of things. HGVs will pay a kings ransom as before, motorcycles will pay a fraction, and cars in between, and nobody needs to know what road you were driving on and when, and nobody needs to whine about EVs not having to pay tax for fuel.

Cas

[numist]

Not sure about the UK but here (in California) the disposal cost is paid up front as a line-item fee when you buy the tire. That's not really a tax, more of an effective cost internalization, but I can see how the more conspiracy-curious among road users would still take it as an opportunity to politicize.

[SwampNut]

In the US we are already taxed for disposal.  Pretty sure it's per tire, as it should be, not miles.  It's not exactly proportional because a motorcycle tire takes far less resources both to start and end life, than say a large pickup tire, but it's not totally crazy.  Actually the Smart's tires might take less resources than my motorcycle's rear tire.

[princec]

A wise exciseman would base taxation on weight, which leaves very little room for argument.

Cas