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[yetiking]

i'm having trouble choosing a motor for my electric dirt bike conversion.

i have a 2002 crf450 frame.

at the moment i'm leaning twards a perm 132, however i've found so many diffrent specs for the motor i'm having some trouble: i beleve this is the specs from their web site :http://www.perm-motor.de/site/pdf/Gleichstrommotoren_PMG/Technische_Daten/PMG_132_TD_Technische_Daten_und_Beschreibung_English_02-08.pdf

now if thats true that it can only produce 26nm of stall torque i dont think it will work for me, how ever electric motorsports says it can produce 110ish ftlbs of stall torque at 72 volts.

am i missing something or what?

i would love to know what you guys think about these motors:
http://www.perm-motor.de/site/en/products/syn_motors.php?linkid=p&linkid2=1
i'm interested in the pms 120w

http://www.agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=47
agni motors

d and d sepex
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php

are there any others anyone has in mind?

i know the zero uses a perm 132, and i know bob simpson-(http://www.evdrive.com/Emoto_project/moto_project.html) used 2 perm 132s

please i'm desperate for some answers
Daniel

[frodus]

Not sure where you got the 110ft-lbs, I only saw that number on their AC stuff.

Those perm's and Agni's are both good choices for a CRF

D*D sepex would be good, if you need regen.... if you want torque get a series wound machine.

if you have any questions about Bob's bike, He's my business parner, let me know.

[yetiking]

i wrote a message to Bob, he's probably busy, but my main question is how did you get regen to work- i know you can get a controler, but everyone has told me that you can only run regen on a perm at 48volts, which wont cut it for me.

can you give me some stall torque numbers so i can get the perm 132 straight. thunderstruck motors says the perm 132 is 133 stall torque- sounds pretty high to me.

how do the angi and the perm 132 compare- i cant find anything on the angi site that tells if its brushless or not. how do the stall torque, max rpm, and hp compare?

Thanks- any help at all is great help to me.
Daniel

[frodus]

Where did you get 110ftlbs for the Perm anyway? I haven't seen that spec ANYWHERE!.

Bob never had regen on his, He uses alltrax controllers. Putting these motors in series and getting regen isn't a problem with a higher voltage kelly. Jozzer has done this on his motorcycle (ducati). Where's this 48V regen limit issue?

For stall torque, contact PMG and agni to get peak numbers. If numbers are all over the place on distributor's websites, go to the manufacturer. Just asking us won't do much good, we get all our info from the the same places you've gotten it.

Agni, Mars, etek, perms are all brushed motors (mars makes one BLDC motor).

what is your so-called "requirement" of stall torque?

You haven't laid out your specs for us, which would help:

Top speed
torque required at the rubber
budget
lifepo4 or lead

[yetiking]

frankly i dont know the specs i want because i'm compairing it to my xr400, witch wont tell me the torque at the wheel either, so i'm stuck there

well i would like 60mph, 50 would be great, 40 would be acceptable
probably going to use li ion or li phosphate ion- i haven't really done the research yet.
i ride in very steep areas like Carnage to desert riding. now i'm planning on having a set of sprockets for different style of riding.

wish i knew more.

i got the 130ft lbs from the thunderstruck motors page- look at stall torque http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/perm132.htm

the 48v limit with regen came along when i called thunderstruck and electric motorsport and asked about the perm- they said it was possible but increasablely hazardous- which i don't believe is true- but thats why i asked.


budget- well i figure i'm looking at 1000-1500 for the motor, another 300 or so for the controller, and another 1000 for the batteries- i assume when i look into its going to be more like 2000 for the batteries

but i'm all for bang for my buck- its going to take a while to pay this off.

[yetiking]

i wrote the agni guys, and i don't understand why anyone would get a perm- it seams to me that there accentually the same for the amps going in, but the agni can go up to 6000rpm,60nm to torque at 400amps.

am i missing something obvious here?

[frodus]

frankly i dont know the specs i want because i'm compairing it to my xr400, witch wont tell me the torque at the wheel either, so i'm stuck there

get motor torque peak, then get the final ratio from the radio of front to rear sprocket. Then get the ratio for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc gears, then get the primary reduction. Then you can calc torque at the rubber.

well i would like 60mph, 50 would be great, 40 would be acceptable
probably going to use li ion or li phosphate ion- i haven't really done the research yet.

you can hit 40-50mph with an etek and lead. Agni and some lead would get you a little higher.

i ride in very steep areas like Carnage to desert riding. now i'm planning on having a set of sprockets for different style of riding.

thats a great idea! higher torque lower speed set and higher speed, lower torque set.

i got the 130ft lbs from the thunderstruck motors page- look at stall torque http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/perm132.htm

Thats absolute peak torque, your going to be very close, if not MORE than an ICE on takeoff. Peak is at 0rpm, not 5krpm like some ICE's for example.

the 48v limit with regen came along when i called thunderstruck and electric motorsport and asked about the perm- they said it was possible but increasablely hazardous- which i don't believe is true- but thats why i asked.

Its not advanced for 72V, but people have used the perm an agni with regen well above 48V.

budget- well i figure i'm looking at 1000-1500 for the motor, another 300 or so for the controller, and another 1000 for the batteries- i assume when i look into its going to be more like 2000 for the batteries

doubt 300 would cut it for the controller, if you want something underpowered
the motor cost sounds right.
batteries for $1000 you'll likely be going lead.

more things:
90 for contactor
gauges are another 100-300
charger is another 700 for something decent
BMS if you go lifepo4
sprocket set front/rear plus new chain
materials for battery cage/welding

but i'm all for bang for my buck- its going to take a while to pay this off.

I collected parts over a year, and kept collecting things like DC-DC, contactor, BMS, batteries..... it takes a while, its not a weekend project by any means. What you need out of this bike is completely doable, thats the good news. Bad news is, between cost, and time needed to put it together, it may be more than you thought.

[yetiking]

get motor torque peak, then get the final ratio from the radio of front to rear sprocket. Then get the ratio for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc gears, then get the primary reduction. Then you can calc torque at the rubber.

now when honda puts out official torque specs is that the torque at the crank? i always assumed they would wont to make it more impressive and say there max torque at the wheel in 1st gear.

ICE

whats ICE?

Bob recommended a kelly controler for 72v regen- how does kelly compare to alltrax?
why didn't Bob use regen?
and why was there a 3phase ac inverter on a dc powered dirt bike?



now if i'm running a agni 95, how do i know how much energy its going to be pulling under stress?

thanks for the help
Daniel

[yetiking]

update- after a lot of work i have the motor installed, controller installed, contractor and fuse installed and wired.

agni 95r
Kelly kdc72601-regen
ev200 contractor
gearing is meant to hit 68 at red line.









i do need some advice with batteries- or more precisely battery management systems.
I think i will end up making my own pack with a123 26650 cells; however i cant find any bms for less then 600 bucks that can support the amperage of my bike.
i need 240amps with a 400 peak. tell me if im wrong but the big problem with high amperage systems is the contractor- correct?



what is everyone else using for their bms?

[yetiking]

sorry if you have dial up.

[Harlan]

Cool!  Are you using that gear cluster as a single speed jackshaft or do you have different gearing options available?

[yetiking]

i was setting it up with multiple gears but the design got too complex- thats for version 2.

lame i know, but it works

[skadamo]

Bike looks great so far. Nice motor mount.

[gasdive]

Unless your goal is balanced wheelstands, you probably want to avoid regen on a dirtbike.  The rear braking will destabilise the bike coming into corners and down hills.

=:)

[Gregski]

any updates, pictures of the finished product?