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[oobflyer]

I got the email today that my charger arrived at the dealership. I'll be picking it up tomorrow morning. Looking forward to quick charging!

[Lipo423]

Please let us know how it works...I will probably order one with my ZF9

[oobflyer]

I used the Quick Charger today for the first time.
I first checked to make sure that I plugged it into an outlet that is on a separate circuit from the outlet that I usually use.
Using the Kill-O-Watt meter that I picked up this morning I monitored the current draw from both the onboard charger, and the offboard Quick Charger. The combined current draw was just shy of 16 Amps.
I only needed to charge up the last three bars, which would normally take close to three hours, but this time it charged up in about 1 1/2 hours - as hoped.
The charger just fits in the tail bag - so I'm ready for a long ride now :-)

[Richard230]

Thanks for the write-up on the charger, oobflyer.  I might have to pick one up one of these days.  I figure that my wall outlet might be able to handle 16 amps without blowing a fuse. In all the years that I have lived in my home I have never tripped a breaker, so maybe there is some useful slack in the circuit that I can use.

What do you think about the Kill A Watt meter? Those things are kind of fun and watching the meter show amps or watts sure is easier than getting down on your hands and knees to look at the little LEDs on the charger under the front of the bike to check on bulk charging. 

As a note, when the charger goes off bulk and on to trickle, it uses 7 to 8 watts as long as you keep it plugged in.  Kind of like a incandescent night light.

[oobflyer]

I charged longer today, after a longer ride (about 25 miles, using 5 bars).
I plugged both chargers in and started my stopwatch 
It took about 2 1/2 hours to top off the batteries. I have to say "about" because the Quick charger indicated that the batteries were full, while the LED display on the Quick charger was still indicating that the batteries were charging. I put the Kill A Watt meter into the circuit with the Quick charger and found that it was still drawing 3 Amps, despite the "full" indicator. I put the meter into the circuit with the onboard charger and it indicated just a trickle charge (less than 1 Amp) despite the fact that the onboard LED lights were still blinking from left to right, as if charging. The fuel gauge on the dash indicated "full" sometime around the 2 1/2 hour mark.
I have no doubt that it was doing what it was supposed to... just difficult to say exactly when the batteries were full and how long it took.
Never-the-less, it again took about 1/2 of the time as usual (about two bars per hour, instead of one bar per hour), so I'm very pleased - and anxious to take it on a longer ride
 

[zap mc]

It just looks like the standard charger but with a beefier lead?...

[protomech]

I have some hope that we'll see a faster onboard charger next year, and it very likely will be possible to retrofit the 2012 bikes.

The Delta-Q has some nice perks, 110/220 auto-ranging, weather resistance, silent operation, and 12V DC conversion. Maximum output is not one of them.

Consider:
Delta-Q QuiQ-dci (PDF) is 246 mm x 278 mm x 110 mm, < 6 kg. In fairness much of the volume is taken up by the connectors and the heatsinks, which allow it to allow it to cool without forced-air. The actual charging body is probably closer to 210 mm x 180 mm x 110 mm. The charger can output 12A maximum, which means bulk charge (72-76V?) is probably < 900W charger output.

Elite Power Solutions sells a 72V 20A charger, dimensions are 264 mm x 158 mm x 76.2 mm, weight unknown. It operates on a single 110v circuit and probably pulls about 15A. Forced air charger.

Kelly Controllers sells a 72V 30A charger, dimensions are 291 mm x 210 mm x 120 mm. Weight is either 5.7 kg or 8.0 kg (different weights claimed at different places). It operates on a 220v circuit and pulls a maximum of 14A. It is also a forced-air charger, and since it's not an auto-ranging charger (110/220v) probably not suitable for an onboard charger anyhow (constant voltage too?).

TC Chargers (formerly Elcon? unclear) has a 60-83V 30A charger, dimensions are 352 mm x 195 mm x 139 mm, weight is 7.1 kg. They also sell a smaller 60-83V 20A charger, same dimensions but 175 mm width instead of 195 and 6.3 kg. Like the Delta-Q, these are sealed weather-resistant chargers that use external heatsinks to radiate heat away. Also like the Delta-Q, they're autoranging and support input AC voltages from 85-265V and 45-65 Hz.


None of these chargers have an integrated DC-to-DC converter, so they would need a separate DC-to-DC converter. The forced air chargers are probably not suitable for mounting where the Delta-Q is currently, and the Elcon / TC charger is likely too large.

Still. It's clearly possible to produce a higher-power onboard charger... question is when Zero will do it.

[Richard230]

The charger on my 2012 Zero S shows a maximum power consumption of around 900 watts on my Kill A Watt meter, although it does vary a bit from hour to hour when I look at the meter. The most draw I have ever seen is 950 watts, but most of the time it is closer to 850 watts.   

[protomech]

The 2.5 kW Elcon would allow the bike to charge in about 4.5 hours on 220, which would be a good use for the J1772 inlet.

Richard230, do you have any good shots of the charger compartment where the Delta-Q sits? Do you have any feel for the tolerances of the compartment?

[Richard230]

The 2.5 kW Elcon would allow the bike to charge in about 4.5 hours on 220, which would be a good use for the J1772 inlet.

Richard230, do you have any good shots of the charger compartment where the Delta-Q sits? Do you have any feel for the tolerances of the compartment?

The charger sits at the bottom of the bike, protected by a plastic belly pan. Without removing the bodywork, I don't think a dentist could see in there. Looking at what I can see of the charger (on my hands and knees, with my eyeball poked into the inspection port), I would say that clearances between the charger box and its fins are at best 1/4 inch. There is a small inspection port at the lower right front of the fairing that shows the LED charging status indicators and you can see a row of fins along the right side of the bike, next to the lower frame rails, but nothing that would make a very informative photo with my camera.  It is amazing that they can get rid of the charger heat without a fan, but I guess they do.  I'll have to check the temperature of the charger with a remote temperature gauge when this rain finally stops and I can ride around and recharge again.

[Lipo423]

It is going to be challenging to get a + 1Kw charger without a proper cooling system (which makes the whole thing useless as a "all weather charger"), convection cooling -like the Delta Q one- would need a quite big charger as you need to dissipate the heat anyway
Elcon offers an alternative as protomech pointed out, but it is IP 46 certified while Delta Q comes with an IP 66 enclosure.

(IP 46 it equals to splashing water, while IP 66, it right below first immersion level on the IP levels -IP 7X-)
From what I have heard (no personal experience) Delta makes high quality chargers

In any case, I would love to see a more powerful onboard charger in the bike, no question...

[protomech]

Well, I see what you mean now! Pretty tight fit.

Lipo423 - good call about the IP codes, I saw that but had no idea what it was.

If wiki is to believed, the first digit ('4' in IP46) is a solid ingress code, the second digit ('6' in IP46) is a liquid ingress code.

'4' for solid ingress means protected against objects of size > 1 mm, but will allow dust to pass in. (Elcon)
'6' for solid ingress means completely dust-tight. (Delta-Q)

'6' for liquid ingress means protected against powerful water jets - ie, you can hose down the charger without issues. No immersion still. (Both)

Sounds like the Elcon charger would be fine in water, but probably would need dust filters installed if mounted where the Delta-Q is .. which won't do good things for heat. Hm.

From the QuiQ User Guide (PDF):

Maintenance Instructions
1. Do not expose charger to oil, dirt, mud or direct heavy water spray when cleaning vehicle.
...
3. The enclosure of the charger has been tested successfully to EN60529, meeting IP66. The AC supply inlet is rated to IP20, which is suitable for indoor use only. Keep all AC connections clean and dry.


So maybe not a good idea to hose down the ports that expose the charger, but hosing down the bike is probably fine.

I assume what they're talking about the AC supply inlet is just the AC receptacle, which is recessed enough to keep out fingers but not other small objects or liquids - meaning that the integrity of the charger won't be compromised by the receptacle. Outdoor charging in the rain might be a bad idea, especially if water can drip down the charging cable into the charger socket.

[Doctorbass]

There is also BMSbattery.com that sell very good charger ( cheap but work great and are powerfull! ( we are many on Endless-Sphere to have bought some fof the 900W, 1200W, 1500W and me the 2000W.

Actually the 2000W is on sale at 223$  !!!    http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37437&p=544952&hilit=2000W#p544952

You can ask them to set it to the desired voltage and current ( CC-CV) and also the balance current ( trickle)

here is a thread i made about mine ( i also modified it to include the cycle analyst display to count the Ah and Wh i put in the bike and added some external 10 turn pot and also some sense voltage probe on the output connector and few other mods)

But as well without these mod, it is still really interesting! it also display the voltage anc current

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29096&hilit=2000W


Modified:







Original:




Here is the link of the BMSBATTERY store: http://www.bmsbattery.com/alloy-shell/164-alloy-shell-2000w-lifepo4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ev-charger.html


Doc

[Doctorbass]

Also, about the battery charger, i wonder how much current the new EIG cells in the 2012 battery can take on charge ?.. I know that the 2011 and older battery that use the molicel 26700A cells can take up to 7A per cells ( wich is 2.5C) so for a 70A battery it is a theoric max charge current of 175A... but as well the actual colling  and BMS of the 2011 battery dont allow that as well...


I am building a charger that will push around  1C ( 70A)  into my 2011 DS battery to charge it in 1 hour. These cahrger will use 3 of my Meanwell 48V power supply connected in parallel.  They have all a PFC of 0.99 and are really efficient.

One is 1500W and two other are 1000W for a total of 3500W ( actually sustain 4000W no prob)

They are:
-Meanwell  RSP-1500-48
-Meanwell  RSP-1000-48
-Meanwell  RCP-1000-48


All are adjustable up to 57V wich is really close to the 14S LiMn cells of the CC-CV of the 2011 battery packs.

I'm actually charging my electric DH bike with those

Doc

[Lipo423]

Nice job Doc,
I look at the thread of the modified charger...good job again    I have also bought some staff from BMSbattery, and they have good quality from what they charge...
Good to know Zero is using EIG cells on the 2012 battery packs (I thought they were still made by Molicel).

Very nice solution for a home charger.