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Author Topic: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S  (Read 3873 times)

Richard230

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 09:59:41 PM »

What I found interesting in this article is that a list of the categories of employees at Zero was provided.  You never get this information from an established motorcycle company, such as Triumph, Ducati, BMW, etc.   Zero was established in 2006 and has made 3200 electric motorcycles since 2009, according to the article. This seems to have been accomplished with a relatively small number of employees.

The article says that the company has a total of 83 employees - 28 are R&D engineers, 12 are assembly line workers and the rest are managers, sales people and whatever else is needed to run a manufacturing company.  I was really surprised to see that there are more than two times as many development engineers as there are assembly employees. That is the way I like to see a manufacturing company operate. Lots of people designing stuff and solving problems and many fewer people performing assembly - although that still leaves 43 managers and other people doing whatever it is that people who don't design and build stuff do. ;)

It is also interesting that Abe Askenazi, who used to be Buell Motorcycles top engineer, leads Zero's development team. The R&D team just developed the first electric motor designed specifically for motorcycle use, which was funded by a $900,000 California Energy Commission grant, and will be used in the 2013 and future models.  I think this could help to stabilize the cost of future models.

Speaking of costs, the new IC motorcycle models mentioned in this magazine and others, seem to show that prices for many motorcycles are really starting to take off. As an example, the 2013 Kawasaki ZX-6 has a base price of $11,699, an increase of $1400 over the 2012 model.  If you add ABS and traction control, the price goes up another $1000. Many other manufacturer models are showing similar price increases for next year.  The way prices are increasing it won't be long before IC motorcycle prices start to become more comparable to EV motorcycles, as their prices drop due to increased sales and manufacturing economies.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

protomech

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 11:33:07 PM »

From http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1301_2013_zero_s_first_ride/
Quote
Such dramatic improvement over a short period of time has been rewarded in the marketplace: Zero has sold roughly 3200 electric motorcycles since 2009—and that’s just the start. Last year, the company boosted production to 1000 bikes annually and expects to double that volume in 2013.
Not sure how to square those numbers with the NHTSA recall numbers.

3200 bikes sold since 2009.

If they produced 1000 bikes in 2011 and 2012, then say 600 sold in 2009 and 2010.

From the NHTSA recall thread:
160 S, DS bikes produced in the first 3 months of 2010 + a bit of 2009.
196 bikes produced in 2011 (450 - 254).
254 bikes produced in the first 6 months of 2012.
315 S, DS bikes produced in the first 9 months of 2012.

Now, the NHTSA probably only covers US street bikes. So all MX and offroad-only X models are not covered. All bikes sold in Europe and Australia are not covered.

Still.. 196 US street bikes (S, DS, XU, MX-road, X-road) were produced in 2011 per NHTSA. I'm not sure I buy 804 sales of US X-offroad, MX-offroad, and all non-US.





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Richard230

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2012, 04:44:28 AM »

I had the same thought. But maybe they built a lot more bikes than they sold.   ???
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Nukie

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2012, 05:58:08 AM »

I am really looking forward to my first test drive here in Denver. Glad I am waiting for the 2013 model. I thought the 2012 was zippy off the line, but this sounds even more so.
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flar

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2012, 06:09:47 AM »

I didn't feel the 2012 was zippy when I test rode it, but what I told a biker friend was that it was enough to feel that I could still beat cars off the stop line and the power delivery was so smooth and consistent that it took on a sort of relentless feel that was reassuring.  It's good to see them finally posting numbers that you don't have to explain away - even better when they start posting superior-than-ICE numbers like the Teslas (you can find cars faster than the Teslas, but you pay a lot for that kind of ICE performance and give up quite a few compromises in the process which levels the playing field considerably).
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Currently riding: 2013 Brammo Empulse R, 2005 BMW R1200RT
Used to ride: '88 Hawk GT, '97 BMW F650 Funduro
Other electric motorcycles test ridden: 2012 Zero S/DS, Brammo Empulse R, 2013 Zero S, Energica Ego/Eva
Other EV own: Tesla Model X
Other EV test drives: Tesla Roadster/S/3

protomech

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 06:36:30 AM »

An extended version of the first ride report has been posted on Cycle News. Click the coverleaf link at the bottom to see the entirety of the article, it spans multiple pages. Definitely worth a read.

Sales data:
* 2700 total bikes sold claimed
* 90% of bikes sold are S and DS models (may just refer to 2012? unclear)
* again, it claims 1000 bikes produced in 2012, with the expectation of double that number in 2013
* 85% of S / DS buyers select the largest pack
* 50% of bikes sold in the last two years are in Europe, which has pretty significant CHAdeMO rollout

Options:
* optional windscreen extends range (likely highway) by 4%
* optional smaller rear sprocket to increase top speed to 105 mph, reduce acceleration by about 10%
* "Not sure why anyone would want to fit a gearbox to an electric motorcycle"  :D
* smartphone apps will be available both for iOS and for Android, report instantaneous power, precise state of charge (no more bar guessing!)

The big reveal:
Cycle News claims pouch cells are manufactured by Farasis.

Farasis has a 25 Ah 5C discharge pouch cell .. probably Zero is using this cell. Each ZF2.8 module would then have 28 (or 27) of these modules in series (3.65V per cell, 102V nominal 25Ah = 2.55 kWh nominal). Four ZF2.8 modules for a ZF11.4 pack, yielding 102V nominal 100Ah / 10.2 kWh, with a terminating charge @ 11.4 kWh max / 100 Ah = 114V, or 4.1V per cell.

While a discharge rate of 5C would be 125A @ 102V = 12.8 kW power on the ZF2.8 bikes, it's possible that may be a sustained discharge rate and short bursts up to 8C are available, which would lead to the 20 kW rating for the smaller-battery XU / FX.
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Richard230

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 09:43:51 PM »

Thanks Protomech.  That was a more interesting and informative article than the one published by Motorcyclist.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

protomech

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 10:47:30 PM »

Direct coverleaf link:
http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20121127#pg31

I bet the race bikes in 2013 (surely they will continue to race TTXGP?) will use the smaller sprocket .. and probably use the 11.4 kWh pack for lower cell discharge rate.

Also:

While the removable modules in the XU / FX / MX weigh 42 pounds apiece, the fixed modules in the Zero S / DS appear to weigh 32 pounds (if the specs are correct). Assuming above is correct, 2555 Wh / 14.5 kg = 176 Wh/kg .. compare to the ZF3 module in the ZF6/ZF9 battery, which is 2628 Wh / 18.6 kg = 141 Wh/kg.

Probably these cells are significantly denser than the EIG cells.. Zero may have found a way to lighten the battery cells as well.
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Doctorbass

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2013, 10:37:43 AM »

interesting to see that the new is confirmed by them:

Quote
NEWS

September 2012
Farasis Energy begins delivery of the newest addition to its product line: the 28S Battery Module, offering one of the highest energy-density energy storage systems on the market.
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trikester

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Re: Motorcyclist Magazine has a first ride report for the 2013 Zero S
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2013, 10:02:59 PM »

As I recall Farasis was mentioned somewhere by Zero in their information sent out about the recall.

Trikester
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