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[BSDThw]

Thanks Trikester:

It wouldn't be available to me at my residence even if I was willing to pay big bucks for it.

I had a discussion with your sales-department if there would be interest for our new 3 Phase PV-Grid inverter for the US market but it seams as I thought not for home use!

Multiple charger: first I planned do use charger we produce in the company I work for, but they a bigger (size) and not in IP68. So I decided to buy 2 DeltaQ and installed each in a GIVI E21 case.
Now I can use my 2 empty GIVI for the daily use and if I do a longer trip I change to the boxes with charger. I don't have to carry all chargers every day and it works fine for me.

In the end I am happy with this decision, because it meant a lot of work; rebuilding and reprogramming your own charger for proper and save use.

Also I like to do handicrafts and to fit the charger + ventilation to the Give boxes was work enough.
At the moment I try to built and continuously adjustable regen braking using a clutch lever.
If it works I will post it.

[protomech]

The Delta-Q charger is IP66. The Elcon charger is IP46, so the same water ingress protection and weaker dust ingress protection. The charger has a fan and I assume a filter protecting it. I don't think it would be wise to mount the Elcon with the fan facing forward; side-facing as offthegrid seems to be okay.

Alternately you could fabricate a front plate cover to seal the charger while the bike is operational.

The harder thing restricting replacing the charger directly is the orientation restrictions on the Elcon. The Elcon charger is required to either be mounted horizontally with the heatsink blades / fan facing up or sideways with the heatsink blades running vertically. If mounted horizontally in the same location as the Delta-Q, the fan will likely be obstructed. Never mind that the charger is approximately 30mm taller than the Delta-Q in this orientation, and likely would require repositioning the charger pan and lowering the bike's ground clearance..

[BSDThw]

I just looked in my dcf Files and realized I wrote nonsense current limit for regen charging is 50A

The recharge from motor/converter to battery is limited to 200A 50A the current from battery to motor/converter is set to 600A. 

[protomech]

congrat Offthegrid for your great trip

Hmm.. I have 4 deltaQ charger for the 2011 zero... i wonder what i'll do with them.... ... but they are big and uggly!

The delta Q are great because they are sealed.. but there is also another solution wich is those great 48V server power supply that are are much smaller.. 3 to 4x for the same power!!.. so for my 2011 i could hide two of them under the seat and 2 at the oem charger location and still have room..

I think that on the LiMn cells of the 2011 and later, the limitation is more related to the max charhing C rate of the cells and the thermal management inside the battery assembly...

I'm looking at the Meanwell power supply.. RSP-1000-48. There's a thread on endless sphere detailing a modification to these power supplies to limit output current for constant current charging.

The 2011 battery is 14 series.. are you talking about connecting 4 supplies in parallel? They can be trimmed down to 43V or up to 55V, 55V / 14 = 3.93 volts per cell .. would you use this then just for bulk charging with an overnight balance charge using the Delta-Q?

The 2012 battery is 18 series.. maybe we'd have to use 3 supplies and connect them in series? RSP-1000-24 can be trimmed from 20 to 26.4V, 24V x 3 = 72V, 72V / 18 = 4.0 volts per cell. We get 40A (2.88 kW) from 3 supplies where you would get 21A x 3 = 63A (3.47 kW) from 3 supplies or 21A x 4 = 84A (4.62 kW) from 4 supplies .. assuming the Meanwell PSU does not deliver lower current when you trim the voltage higher.

What happens when you hook up the power supply array to the battery? Say supply output 56V where say battery voltage is depleted down to 3.2 volts per cell = 45V? Does the battery get pulled partway up to the supply voltage and then the power supply provides constant current?

The Meanwell power supplies are not sealed.. still the power density is very appealing. 40A for 3x 1.95 kg = 5.85 kg, approximately the same as a single (environmentally sealed, officially supported) 12A Delta-Q.. packed dimensions of 295x127x123 mm (3x RSP) vs 280x246x110mm (1x QuiQ)..

Code: [Select]

Charger         Vmax  BattAmp  110/230V? Dimensions     Weight  Sealed?
Elcon PFC2500   85V   36A      Y         352×195×139mm  <7kg    IP46
3x RSP-1000-24  79V   40A      Y         295x127x123mm  5.95kg  N
Delta-Q QuiQ    100V  12A      Y         280x246x110mm  <6kg    IP66
Still.. considering the Elcon charger is (after offthegrid's profile modification) a purpose-built solution and relatively environmentally sealed.. it seems more suitable than a set of Meanwell power supplies. It's still far bulkier and harder to hide than a moduler power supply like your Meanwells, Doctorbass.

[BSDThw]

I just looked in my dcf Files and realized I wrote nonsense current limit for regen charging is 50A

The recharge from motor/converter to battery is limited to 200A 50A the current from battery to motor/converter is set to 600A.

 

Sorry if it is not of interest for anybody but I gone more in details at the moment and have to recall what I wrote.
See SevCon Manual attached.
The mentioned values are set in Object 0x4623 but you have to enable it witch Object 0x2870. Zero use Value 0x00 so the current limits are out of order only puzzling thing
"object 4623h sub index 3 must also be set to 0x0000"
it is actually 0x0028. I have no idea what the effect is but I could monitor that my bike recharge much more current to the Batteries as 50A.

[Biff]

I just looked in my dcf Files and realized I wrote nonsense current limit for regen charging is 50A

The recharge from motor/converter to battery is limited to 200A 50A the current from battery to motor/converter is set to 600A.

 

Sorry if it is not of interest for anybody but I gone more in details at the moment and have to recall what I wrote.
See SevCon Manual attached.
The mentioned values are set in Object 0x4623 but you have to enable it witch Object 0x2870. Zero use Value 0x00 so the current limits are out of order only puzzling thing
"object 4623h sub index 3 must also be set to 0x0000"
it is actually 0x0028. I have no idea what the effect is but I could monitor that my bike recharge much more current to the Batteries as 50A.

I am curious how you are communicating with your controller, did you write your own software and using your own CAN interface, or did you get the sevcon configuration software?

I believe the battery current is controlled more accurately with better control loops using the 0x4623 object (Local current limits) rather than the Master current limit.

-ryan

[BSDThw]

I use the SevCon Software and the IXXAT USB to CAN Dongle.

If I find time for it I will use a µC to display / log data especially Heatsink and Motor Temp would be something I would like to have always displayed.

[lolachampcar]

BSDThw,

I've got the Ixxat tool which I've used in the past to do automotive ECU reflashing development work (also built reflashing dongles but then that is a different subject).

Is the SevCon software available?  I was considering moving to the 6 controller on my MY12 9DS but did not like the idea of not being in the loop on programming and such.  Having the software might make that whole process make more sense.

[BSDThw]

Sorry we drift away of the Topic.

I was always shaky if it is good to start a thread of software manipulation.

It has some risks that can end deadly on a bike. If you just mess up with one Bit in the DSP setting your wheel will block instead of free wheeling  in a fault situation. ( just one scenario)

On the other side I would like to have some like-minded friends to share ideas and experience.
If there is more interest of deeper technical talk it would be good to open a new thread.

If there are more hungry for knowledge, I'm in!

[lolachampcar]

BSTDhw,

"Also I like to do handicrafts and to fit the charger + ventilation to the Give boxes was work enough.
At the moment I try to built and continuously adjustable regen braking using a clutch lever.
If it works I will post it."

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.  I would like this as well.

[Doctorbass]

congrat Offthegrid for your great trip

Hmm.. I have 4 deltaQ charger for the 2011 zero... i wonder what i'll do with them.... ... but they are big and uggly!

The delta Q are great because they are sealed.. but there is also another solution wich is those great 48V server power supply that are are much smaller.. 3 to 4x for the same power!!.. so for my 2011 i could hide two of them under the seat and 2 at the oem charger location and still have room..

I think that on the LiMn cells of the 2011 and later, the limitation is more related to the max charhing C rate of the cells and the thermal management inside the battery assembly...

I'm looking at the Meanwell power supply.. RSP-1000-48. There's a thread on endless sphere detailing a modification to these power supplies to limit output current for constant current charging.

The 2011 battery is 14 series.. are you talking about connecting 4 supplies in parallel? They can be trimmed down to 43V or up to 55V, 55V / 14 = 3.93 volts per cell .. would you use this then just for bulk charging with an overnight balance charge using the Delta-Q?

The 2012 battery is 18 series.. maybe we'd have to use 3 supplies and connect them in series? RSP-1000-24 can be trimmed from 20 to 26.4V, 24V x 3 = 72V, 72V / 18 = 4.0 volts per cell. We get 40A (2.88 kW) from 3 supplies where you would get 21A x 3 = 63A (3.47 kW) from 3 supplies or 21A x 4 = 84A (4.62 kW) from 4 supplies .. assuming the Meanwell PSU does not deliver lower current when you trim the voltage higher.

What happens when you hook up the power supply array to the battery? Say supply output 56V where say battery voltage is depleted down to 3.2 volts per cell = 45V? Does the battery get pulled partway up to the supply voltage and then the power supply provides constant current?

The Meanwell power supplies are not sealed.. still the power density is very appealing. 40A for 3x 1.95 kg = 5.85 kg, approximately the same as a single (environmentally sealed, officially supported) 12A Delta-Q.. packed dimensions of 295x127x123 mm (3x RSP) vs 280x246x110mm (1x QuiQ)..

Code: [Select]

Charger         Vmax  BattAmp  110/230V? Dimensions     Weight  Sealed?
Elcon PFC2500   85V   36A      Y         352×195×139mm  <7kg    IP46
3x RSP-1000-24  79V   40A      Y         295x127x123mm  5.95kg  N
Delta-Q QuiQ    100V  12A      Y         280x246x110mm  <6kg    IP66
Still.. considering the Elcon charger is (after offthegrid's profile modification) a purpose-built solution and relatively environmentally sealed.. it seems more suitable than a set of Meanwell power supplies. It's still far bulkier and harder to hide than a moduler power supply like your Meanwells, Doctorbass.

I am using these Meanwell PSU  as charger for my ebikes since 7 years now and they wortk really great!

They are CC-CV too ( Constant voltage - Constant Current)

They are overcurrent protected to 125% of rated current ( for the RSP serie at least)

so no need for these little board for current limiting, they have internal limit.

ex: both of my RSP 1000-48 really output 1250W DC output continuous each no prob for every charge on my ebikes and my RSP-1500-48 are having an output of a true  1700W DC with a 120V 18A current ( on a 15A breaker.... that dont want to trip =) )

Thse are perfect compact charger!! and their PFC make them really efficient!

I'm using 2 rsp 1000-48 in serie plus couples of serie parallel DC-Dc with the output connected also in serie  to get 125V for my 30s lipo pack on my giant ebike.

I have 4 delta Q charger here ( for the 2011 zero) but i plan on replacing them with the meanwell. With a little adj DC-DC of 5V i could raise the 56V max the DeltaQ can do to about 58V.

The single meanwell RSP 1000-48 really do 25A on output  so it's 7 more amp than the delta Q and it is 2.5 time more compact!

now what is nice is that it exist alsi the model RSP 2000-48 !!! yes.. the same size of the RSP-1000 but with double the power! imagine 21.4W per cu inch !!! that's 45A at 56V !!

You charge your zero 2011 s or DS in less than 1.5 hours!!

http://www.meanwell.com/search/RSP-2000/RSP-2000-spec.pdf

The RSP-2000-48 is 433$ !! cheaper than the delta Q and twice more powerfull and 2.5 times smaller...

RSP and RCP meanwell prices: http://www.trcelectronics.com/48-volt-power-supplies-high-chassis-2.shtml


DOc

[WindRider]

I have never used the MeanWell Power Supplies to recharge EVs but I have been using them for the years in ourdoor WiFi and RF communications equipment.   They are the best power supplies for the $$$ for that application that I have ever used.   We have sent thousands of them all over North America and deployed them in really hostile climates and they are extremely tough and resiliant to abuse.    We do install them in weather tight cabinets but with no climate control from the Arctic Circle to Arizona and they take the tempsrature extremes.

MeanWell makes a great product.