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[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

My only complaint about my quiet Zero is when trying to pass bicycle riders on narrow back roads.  They tend to wander all over the road and sometimes will make a U-turn without looking because they don't hear a vehicle coming (I assume). I would love to use my horn to let them know that I am behind them and trying to pass, but around here (for some reason) that gets bicycle riders really mad so I avoid doing that. So far I haven't hit one yet and I hope I can continue to avoid a collision with a bicyclist. Sometimes a little noise can help.   

If it's bicyclists, I literally just say "hey!" or "beep beep". The horn is overkill especially since I'm riding mountain roads and no one wants to be surprised.

[MichaelJohn]

I thought I might get a reaction with this question. Let me be clear that I would never rely on exhaust noise for my safety on the road. It does not even factor in. I do not ride any differently with a louder pipe as I am still a very cautious and conscientious rider. In fact, I ride the Honda more conservatively than the Zero - it just doesn't have the "get me out of this guy's blind spot right now" power burst of the SR and I ride accordingly. I am such a conservative rider/driver that in almost 50 years on the road I have never gotten a speeding ticket and I have owned plenty of high performance vehicles. Don't get me wrong, I love acceleration and attacking the twisties but I am reasonable about how and when I do it.

As far as being able to hear more on an electric bike there may some truth to that but I still hear over the Honda exhaust and I wear ear plugs which compromise my hearing on either bike anyway. Yes the exhaust sound is mostly behind the bike but it is not completely behind the bike. I can certainly hear motorcycles (or loud cars) coming up from behind.

All that being said I would never dream of relaxing on the road under the assumption that my exhaust enhances my survivability. I did say that I felt a little safer on the Honda but that does not mean that I am any less vigilant. My point was, all things being equal, that I might get noticed on the Honda where I wouldn't on the Zero. If that makes even the smallest difference, I'll take it.

[Kenmc_3]

As a long time motorcyclist I think being seen is better than being heard. I added hand guards with LED lights in them to enhance front visibility. I have a luggage rack with LEDs wrapped around the sides and back, and LED extra brake light also. I also wear a bright red riding suit and bright multi colored helmet. So far so good.

And my last 3 street bikes were all very quiet. BMW, Honda Goldwing, Suzuki Burgman 650 scooter.

[MostlyBonkers]

It seems this is an emotive subject and for once, I didn't start it!

Having said very recently, probably in this thread, that I don't need to wear earplugs, I put them back in for my ride home tonight. It's the wind noise. The Schuberth is a quiet helmet but once you get above 60mph the decibels do go up. If I know I'm just going to potter about on some country lanes, I won't bother with the plugs, but on my commute there is enough time spent at high speed to warrant them.  That means that in the city I'm relying on my vision mostly.

With vision in mind, I also think you can over-do it.  Too much hi-vis, too many lights and people can get drawn to you like moths. The reason it's so dangerous to stop on the hard shoulder of a motorway is that people look at the stationary vehicle and unconsciously steer towards it. You tend to go in the direction you're looking. 

I believe that whether it's noise or visibility it should be kept in moderation. Observation is key. Sound can be deceptive. Too much light or contrast can dazzle or distract. You want to be seen but kept in the context of all the other things that are happening. All this "look and listen to me" puts both the individual and other road users in danger. Distractions are bad. Allow other road users to take in the whole scene and there's less likelihood of an accident. It does require people to observe and pay attention though.

I don't think we can rely on being seen or heard, no matter how loud or fluorescent we are. The only way to have any chance of survival is to make sure there is enough space and time to react to not being seen. Keep relative speeds low and do your best to anticipate.

COAST:

Concentrate
Observe
Anticipate
Speed
Time

I like to ride fast and have fun, which is still possible if you keep COAST in mind. I'm not a mnemonic junkie but I think that one is worth it.

[benswing]

I did say that I felt a little safer on the Honda but that does not mean that I am any less vigilant. My point was, all things being equal, that I might get noticed on the Honda where I wouldn't on the Zero.

Feeling safer and being safer are two different things.  The research (Hurt report) shows no correlation between loud pipes and lower incidences of accidents.  It's simply not true.

[NEW2elec]

When I first got my bike I really started paying attention to motorcycles on the road.  I watched a guy coming up pretty quick in the fast lane going to work so I thought I'd try something.  The radio was on local sports but not blaring.  I looked straight ahead and waited until I heard the bike before i turned to see where he was when I heard him.  He was right beside me directly even with my driver's seat in my truck when I heard him.  The same place I would have looked if I were going to change lanes.  Try it for yourself, REALLY loud pipes might be heard sooner but this was a mid size Harley that passed me.  The doppler effect puts most of the sound behind the bike so it's still hard to hear it coming.

[MichaelJohn]

Feeling safer and being safer are two different things.  The research (Hurt report) shows no correlation between loud pipes and lower incidences of accidents.  It's simply not true.

I don't believe that the Hurt report says anything about loud pipes at all. It does mention that modified exhaust systems are slightly over-represented in accidents but calls it insignificant. There is no mention of exhaust volume either pro or con.
 
I don't think that there is any real proof one way or the other.

[MostlyBonkers]

I'm glad you raised this topic Michael. Just out of interest, how do you feel after reading all the comments? Has your opinion changed, do you feel like you've been attacked at all? I'm curious because without the benefit of being face-to-face with people, the message can be misinterpreted.  I hope you're not put off at all. It has been interesting reading everyone's comments. I'm a little surprised we didn't get more people from the loud pipes camp, but this is a forum for quiet bikes after all. I'm tempted to find a Harley forum and search for the same topic. It would be fun to see how all those guys react to the notion. I think Terry should pay them a visit, his description of them is hilarious! [emoji4]

[LeftieBiker]

   I'm in the same camp as Mrwilsn. I always tell people to assume, when they are riding a motorcycle, bicycle, whatever, that all of the drivers in all of the cars and trucks around them would like to kill them. Most of these drivers are too chicken to actually act on this desire, but there are always one or two who are willing to take that risk. With this scenario in mind, loud pipes aren't really all that reassuring - they just make it easier to locate you for destruction.  ;-)

[Richard230]

I'm glad you raised this topic Michael. Just out of interest, how do you feel after reading all the comments? Has your opinion changed, do you feel like you've been attacked at all? I'm curious because without the benefit of being face-to-face with people, the message can be misinterpreted.  I hope you're not put off at all. It has been interesting reading everyone's comments. I'm a little surprised we didn't get more people from the loud pipes camp, but this is a forum for quiet bikes after all. I'm tempted to find a Harley forum and search for the same topic. It would be fun to see how all those guys react to the notion. I think Terry should pay them a visit, his description of them is hilarious! [emoji4]

What Terry may not realize (referring to his comment about not seeing any redneck H-D riders in CA) is that most of the loud-pipe H-D owners in California are cops.  Which is probably why other cops don't pull them over and give them tickets for not having mufflers or not wearing legal (if any) helmets.   

[ZEM Tahiti]

MrWilsn you almost said it all!

I believe also in some years if EV registration takes off, people will also get used to it, and change some behaviours.
Anyway even if had ridden with some loud pipes years ago, I have no problem at all with the adaptation.
Street riding experience with bicycle, or e-bike helps a lot.
Don't forget, we still have the horn for very urgent matters!!!

[buutvrij for life]

Mrwilsn + 1, but MichaelJohn, i understand where you are coming from.

bit off topic:

As far as the 'loud pipes saves lives" sticker goes..; some time ago, i was in Cali and i noticed 'loud pipes kill lives' on the back of a Tesla.

I bet that the average petit red-neck brain (yes, in Europe we have them too) does not understand that it took some 4500 dead american soldiers in Iraqi desserts, 'securing' the Bush administration need's for crude oil. Just as important: more then 100.000 Iraqi civilians died in the second Gulf War. So if you are looking for weapons of mass destruction; just look down the road.
And yes, i have one too, but doing my best to do as many km's on the Zero as possible

[NoiseBoy]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I used to ride loud bikes but after riding the Zero for a couple of years I now realise that I was being an absolute wanker. I go for a nice walk in the country but my peace and quiet is constantly interrupted by noisy bikes and cars (mostly bikes). I feel sorry for anyone that lives near a major road or has pets/kids that are frightened by loud noises etc. etc.

I didn't realise how completely socially unacceptable loud pipes are, to the point that even if they did increase your safety by a couple of percentage points (which they don't) I'm still not sure it would be morally justifiable. It's probably not as big a problem in the city but I live in a picturesque area that is popular with walkers and visitors. Studies have shown that traffic noise increases stress levels, and the last thing anyone needs is more stress.

On a practical point, in the UK highway code it says that the horn should be used to alert other road users to your presence, I have made a point of using it for that purpose (rather than for expressing anger as with most drivers) and it has certainly been handy on a number of occasions, usually at lower speeds in town as the horn is too weedy for higher speed use.

I read somewhere many years ago, and haven't been able to find it since, that ~85% of modern car drivers routinely fail to hear emergency sirens, so what chance do they have of hearing a bike among all the other white noise.  Some departments have started using low frequency 'rumbler' sirens to defeat the sound insulation and loud radio everyone is listening to.

[ultrarnr]

I was at Deals Gap talking with some other riders when our conversation was interrupted by a few very loud bikes taking off. One of them made the comment: "Loud pipes are really obnoxious except when they are yours". Very true.

[MichaelJohn]

I'm glad you raised this topic Michael. Just out of interest, how do you feel after reading all the comments? Has your opinion changed, do you feel like you've been attacked at all? I'm curious because without the benefit of being face-to-face with people, the message can be misinterpreted.  I hope you're not put off at all. It has been interesting reading everyone's comments. I'm a little surprised we didn't get more people from the loud pipes camp, but this is a forum for quiet bikes after all. I'm tempted to find a Harley forum and search for the same topic. It would be fun to see how all those guys react to the notion. I think Terry should pay them a visit, his description of them is hilarious! [emoji4]

Well Bonkers, I invited any and all comments so I don't feel attacked or put off at all. I didn't invent "loud pipes save lives" so I'm not invested in it. It's a bit of an extreme statement that I used to start the thread. My position is that some noise on a motorcycle might make us a little more conspicuous, that's all. I brought it up because it's a feeling that I have been getting on my recent rides and I wanted some feedback. I know which way he wind blows on this forum (and as forums go, this is a very civil one) and I expected most to take the other side but I wanted to hear why. I do find it mildly surprising that many people are absolutely sure that noise makes no difference at all. I am not completely convinced. I don't think that this is a black and white issue. I am glad that Benswing brought up the Hurt Report because I was then compelled to go back and look at it to see exactly what it said. I found nothing condemning loud pipes so now I am a bit more skeptical when people say that "loud pipes save lives" is proven to be false. I say show me the data, I would truly love to see it. Truth is, I don't think anyone knows for sure. I was also a little surprised that many said that exhaust noise was no substitute for other safety measures because I never meant to imply that. I'll end by saying that I still think that drivers and especially pedestrians notice me more on my ICE bike (which, by the way, is not obnoxiously loud). The more people aware of my presence on a motorcycle, the better. That's my opinion, and it's as good as any!