Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Richard230]

Life must be tough for motorcycle dealerships lately.  Within the last 6 months two large multi-brand Japanese (one also carried Zero and the other Royal Enfield brands) dealerships near me have gone out of business, both had been operating continuously since around 1970.  Rumor has it that their problems started with changes to their brand franchise requirements that they were financially unable to meet.  Also, the cost of running a business and paying rent on commercial property anywhere in the Bay Area, are putting a lot of businesses out of business around here, too.   

[Manzanita]

Bringing your bike to the dealership is just the first step. Actually having the bike repaired may take a while longer.

My 2014 Zero S has been at the local dealership for about 2 months now after some intermittent starting problems. I think everyone involved is equally frustrated, in that the mechanics can only follow the advice of Zero technicians who are remotely troubleshooting the issue. There is clearly a large backlog of bikes with similar issues. I wonder if the scale of the problem is so bad it may bring the company down--that is my worst fear.

I am happy that the dealer and Zero are committed to fixing the problem and that all the work will be under warranty. I love the bike, and don't regret buying it.... yet.

[MostlyBonkers]

There is clearly a large backlog of bikes with similar issues. I wonder if the scale of the problem is so bad it may bring the company down--that is my worst fear.

I've been wondering that myself. With the saying 'If it isn't reliable, it isn't viable' ringing in my ears. Is Zero a viable company when just about every bike that hits the road gives them multiple warranty claims? I just hope there's a silent majority out there that are happily riding around with no issues. Aside from the core enthusiasts, I'm sure that many get drawn to this forum because they have issues to resolve.

Please keep us posted with your progress Leftie. I hate to hear stories of bikes being off the road for months at a time. Zero still have a lot of work to do to improve their troubleshooting methods. Better diagnostics, a more proactive approach to seeing issues through to resolution, active management of communication with dealerships, and so on...

Better still, just improve reliability! Why are standards so low?

[LeftieBiker]

   Gee, I wouldn't want to seem...obsessive, or anything.

   Brief update: Zero never got back to me, so I called them. And was told to take it to a dealership. When I explained that I needed to know *which* dealership, (and being first told that I got to pick whichever one I liked!) I was then told that the closest one to me (120miles) is very good, so I'm in touch with them. They got the logs yesterday, so I'm waiting for some assessment of them, but I know I'll have to pay to have the bike shipped there. Hauling it there myself would be too hard on me, especially since I'd just be leaving it after a three or four hour drive, and driving back home.

   I can reset the bike so the errors vanish for a little bit, so I have little doubt that this is what the dealership who sold me the bike did. If I read the BMS log correctly, they did it right before shipping it.

[benswing]

There is clearly a large backlog of bikes with similar issues. I wonder if the scale of the problem is so bad it may bring the company down--that is my worst fear.

I've been wondering that myself. With the saying 'If it isn't reliable, it isn't viable' ringing in my ears. Is Zero a viable company when just about every bike that hits the road gives them multiple warranty claims? I just hope there's a silent majority out there that are happily riding around with no issues. Aside from the core enthusiasts, I'm sure that many get drawn to this forum because they have issues to resolve.

Better still, just improve reliability! Why are standards so low?

Why would you think there is a backlog of bikes with similar issues? 

When speaking with people who work for Zero, they admit that their bikes have similar reliability issues to other manufacturers bikes, but I think for the most part they are quite reliable. 

I think the main difference is that troubleshooting electronics is more challenging than troubleshooting mechanical components.

Some people even seem to use this forum as their help desk before contacting Zero, which I think is backwards.  There would probably be fewer posts about issues if people contacted Zero/their dealer first, then posted only after the issue isn't rectified.  Most people don't post "bike worked fine today, just as expected" because that's not news.

Also the echo chamber that is the ElectricMotorcycleForum means we read multiple posts about the same bike that has issues.  When reading multiple posts, that may make it seem like the issues are more far reaching than they actually are.  Obviously people who are not riding have more time on their hands.  [emoji6] And since they wish they were riding they tend to post more than those of us who are riding. 

I hope all your issues get cleared up quickly, and you all can be enjoying the bike for what you got it for in the first place!

[Kocho]

Just in case you have not considered it already: when I bought my Vectrix (in fact, for the purpose of hauling it home about 130 miles) I installed a hitch on my passenger car. $100 delivered, I installed it myself and it was fairly easy as it was a direct custom fit out of the box. UHaul motorcycle trailer rental was something like $20 a day and it is low and with a wide ramp to easily load the bike then secure it with ratchet tiedowns ($10). Another $15 and an hour for crimping wires for the hitch plug compatible with most UHaul trailers to control the brake lights and turn signals. If you buy the hitch from UHaul, I think they can install it and the plug for you.

The hitch has been very useful for a bicycle carrier that I use quite often with a 4 bike rack. I've used it handful of times more for hauling my motorcycles - for pickup from the purchase place and to register and filter them before I had a motorcycle license in my pocket, and to take my motorcycle test (can't drive there on the bike without a license!). And if my bike gets disabled on the road, I can get it back home or to a repair place myself (hasn't happened yet, but it might).   

I have a compact car that is not rated to tow anything, but since the trailer and the bike weigh about as much as a full load of adults in the car, it can handle it with a gentle driving style. I would not make it a daily hauler, but for the occasional need it works.

I'll have to pay to have the bike shipped there. Hauling it there myself would be too hard on me

[LeftieBiker]

   I'm not sure why you cropped the second half of the sentence, given the relevance, but here it is, again:

"...especially since I'd just be leaving it after a three or four hour drive, and driving back home." I am in poor health, and can't drive, for 6+ hours in one day, period.

   If you are going to make that offer, Kocho, I suggest you do it before I make arrangements to ship the bike to a dealer for repair. If anyone else wants to make me an offer on the bike, as-is, you pick it up, I have the title in hand. I'm not desperate for money, but have no enthusiasm for this bike left. If anyone wants it for the asking price of the 2014 SR for sale here, that will get it for sure.

[Kocho]

Sorry, was focusing on the information I provided, you do with it what you want (might have a friend or a relative to do it for you if you can't).

As for offer, just emailed you one through visforvoltage since I don't know how to contact you off-line here. If you do not receive the email soon, please let me know and we'll find a way to get in touch. Again, sorry if my offer is too low, but I am not looking to buy for more, so feel free to just say no or wait a couple of weeks to see if you get a better offer.

EDIT: if someone else is thinking of getting Leftie's bike, make him an offer now. My offer is very low so there is a good chance yours will be better: you'll get a nice bike and Leftie a better deal!

   I'm not sure why you cropped the second half of the sentence, given the relevance, but here it is, again:

"...especially since I'd just be leaving it after a three or four hour drive, and driving back home." I am in poor health, and can't drive, for 6+ hours in one day, period.

   If you are going to make that offer, Kocho, I suggest you do it before I make arrangements to ship the bike to a dealer for repair. If anyone else wants to make me an offer on the bike, as-is, you pick it up, I have the title in hand. I'm not desperate for money, but have no enthusiasm for this bike left. If anyone wants it for the asking price of the 2014 SR for sale here, that will get it for sure.

[Manzanita]

Why would you think there is a backlog of bikes with similar issues? 

I actually went to the trouble to find this thread--I thought it was a forum poll, but no, a google spreadsheet: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4482.0

It's a bit outdated now, but still relevant. Over 50 percent of the respondents are 2014+ models, and only 37% of respondents have had no issues.

My other data point is that my bike was in the shop for two months, and when I arrived there were 3 other 2014+ bikes with similar issues, when I called for updates, the mechanic went on at length about the steady stream of Zeros coming in with electrical problems, and when I finally picked up my bike today, the mechanic pointed out the pool of Zeros that were under diagnosis for electrical problems. It's no echo chamber, although how many Zeros are sold out of this shop and what the percentage of failure is, I can't say. 

Not trying to be a killjoy, but people should know that they may have issues and shouldn't be incredibly shocked, as it is new technology (still). I am actually really happy that they are honoring their warranty. Jumping back on the bike today it felt great. So much nicer to ride versus my Honda 919, which still feels so unwieldy despite all the tire changes and suspension work I've done on it...

[MostlyBonkers]

Just a thought Leftie, do you have any friends or relatives that might be willing to drop the bike at the dealer for you? I'm assuming it's a no from the dealer, which is disappointing.

I think we've been lucky with Streetbike here in the UK. I'm not sure Zero have been reimbursing the multiple pickups, so Streetbike have been racking up the miles at their own expense.  I think Zero will have quite a hefty bill to foot for all that goodwill, if they have a mind to. Over 2,000 miles of Zero gathering to date. Some of that will be initial deliveries, but only a fraction. My delivery was the first leg of a Zero pickup. I rode the last 45 miles or so home, so my delivery was gratis really.

I know you're probably disgruntled at this point Leftie, but you do have a great bike in your hands. We have to expect some teething troubles, fixed under warranty. After that there's good evidence that we can enjoy some reliability. That's if we don't get a series of dodgy chargers... I appreciate you're not in great health and I don't know quite how that changes things for you. However, the SR will be reasonably light, fun and easy to ride bike for you. With the Diginow charger ready to roll off the production line soon, you can also look forward to road trips. It's an exciting time to be part of the electric motorcycling community. As a long term EV owner, it would be a shame to lose you.

If you can bring yourself to get this issue fixed, I'm confident you'll fall in love with the bike and all will be forgiven once you've got a few miles under your belt. You've had a bad start, that's all. The dealer you bought from is the one to be upset with from what I gather. Zero will see you right.

Actually, one thing that might work is a new email to customer services explaining the circumstances.

[MostlyBonkers]

I've written the email for you Leftie. Worth a try as a last resort? I hope this helps.

********

Leftie letter to Zero.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm writing to you as a last resort before I sell my newly acquired Zero at a significant loss. That's not just a financial loss, but also at great cost to my valuable time and all the stress and inconvenience my experience with Zero has caused.

I bought my 2014 Zero SR as an ex-demo bike from your dealer in xxxx. It was shipped to me and failed on it's first ride. Investigation, with the assistance of members of the forum, lead me to the conclusion that the bike had an issue before it left the dealership. It seems they've been resetting the BMS in order to get a few more miles out of it before getting error messages. I think the BMS was reset just before the bike was shipped so that there were no errors on delivery, but I got the warning light on my dash on its first run.

Unfortunately I am in poor health, so any problems I encounter are compounded by my lessened ability to deal with them. It has taken a considerable amount of time to diagnose the issue with the bike so far and the current status is that it needs to get back to a dealership. Further diagnosis and warranty work is required.

The nearest dealership is approximately 130 miles from where I live. I don't own a bike trailer and quite frankly, I'm not up to a six hour drive to drop the bike off.

Under the circumstances, are you able to arrange the pickup of my Zero via my local dealer? I've reached the point where I'm disgruntled by the whole experience and I would appreciate Zero's assistance.

Yours faithfully,


Leftie.

[LeftieBiker]

   After having a Zero rep tell me, on the phone, that they don't diagnose the bikes, just get a  copy of the logs, and the dealer diagnoses/fixes them, I asked the local dealership about this. I was told that it just isn't true, that only Zero interprets the logs, and uses them to instruct the dealers on what to do, if the issue shows in the logs. I don't know if this was a deliberate lie to me by Zero or just a badly-trained Rep, but I'm currently in the last stages of negotiating to sell the SR, taking a Vectrix (a bike I previously thought of as too unreliable) in trade. I hope the deal goes through; if not, I'll get the bike fixed, and sell it ASAP. Having dealt with, first, an apparently crooked dealership, then Zero ignoring me for weeks, then being told a "fib" by them, I want nothing further to do with this company or this motorcycle. I've been riding since 1972, and this is the worst experience I've had with any of the roughly 16 motorcycles I've owned. If the bike cost $5k I'd be annoyed. At the current ridiculous prices, I'm going to tell anyone who asks, that only people who live next to a Zero dealership and who can afford to flush $17k down the toilet without blinking should own a Zero. It would probably also be very helpful if they aren't much interested in riding the bike, just in displaying it as "garage art."

[MostlyBonkers]

I hear you Leftie and for what it's worth, I'm sorry to hear it has worked out so badly.

[LeftieBiker]

I hear you Leftie and for what it's worth, I'm sorry to hear it has worked out so badly.

   And I appreciate your assistance and support.

[sendler]

  I'm currently in the last stages of negotiating to sell the SR, taking a Vectrix (a bike I previously thought of as too unreliable) in trade.

Isn't there lemon law where you are? Did you buy this from an authorized Zero dealer? Tell them you want your money back or you will take them to court.