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[wijnand71]

Great, really great. What a power dense solution. Wow.
Some questions though.. Is the reprogramming of max voltage and max current done in an earlier state and are the units operating "passively", without any CAN bus communication while operating?
And can you post your solution how to wire the connectors on the back of the flatpacks?

I think, when I come to the point of creating such a charger, I will limit the current in the flatpacks on phase 2 so that I can run it on a single 16A group with the onboard without tripping the breaker. (Adapter from shuco to Mennekes, Phase 1 and 2 together, 1300W + 2150W, total 3450W)
And use it also on a 3 phase charging point with Mennkes type2 on 3x 16A without the adapter. This gives 3450W plus 3600W into a nice 7kW of charging juice.
A real pitty to not use the max of the charger, any thoughts on this other than reprogram the units "life"?

[Lenny]

Hey remmie,

my flatpacks are shipped (got three of them on ebay) and I’m preparing to build my own fast charger. So I have a few more questions:

1. Did you use diodes in between the rectifiers to prevent reverse currents?

2. You’re now sending CAN messages frequently to set voltage and current instead of making changes permanent. But you also wrote that you’re only able to connect one rectifier at a time to the CAN-Bus because otherwise you would send 48V to the CAN. Did you solve this problem somehow?

3. Do you adjust voltage during charging or is this happening automatically? Like when you start charging pack voltage is somewhere around 96V and then slowly rises. Do the flatpacks send 114V no matter at what SOC you are or are they dropping automatically to the voltage required?

4. I’m currently looking for an Arduino board. There are a few copy’s out there which seem to have same specs but are far cheaper. Do you recommend buying an original one or might the fake also work well?

5. Do you or anyone else know how the auxiliary contacts in the auxiliary charge port are work to close the contactor? Which voltage do they use? Just wondering in case I want to charge without the onboard charger one day.

6. Is your Type 2 plug actually the one which is sold on amazon?

Thank you very much,

Lenny

[remmie]

Great, really great. What a power dense solution. Wow.
Some questions though.. Is the reprogramming of max voltage and max current done in an earlier state and are the units operating "passively", without any CAN bus communication while operating?
And can you post your solution how to wire the connectors on the back of the flatpacks?

I think, when I come to the point of creating such a charger, I will limit the current in the flatpacks on phase 2 so that I can run it on a single 16A group with the onboard without tripping the breaker. (Adapter from shuco to Mennekes, Phase 1 and 2 together, 1300W + 2150W, total 3450W)
And use it also on a 3 phase charging point with Mennkes type2 on 3x 16A without the adapter. This gives 3450W plus 3600W into a nice 7kW of charging juice.
A real pitty to not use the max of the charger, any thoughts on this other than reprogram the units "life"?

The reprogramming is indeed done in an earlier state. Basically they operate fully passively. I only use the CAN-BUS to read out the current and input voltage temperatures etc.

How did i do the wiring on the back of the flatpacks? I just stripped the wires about 1 cm, stuck the wire inbetween the contact which would normally " grip"  the PCB board, and soldered them to the contacts. Be carefull that you ise a soldering iron with a high enough wattage and be carefull that the solder does not flow to the adjacent contacts, creating a short.

After soldering and testing i used hotglue to protect the contacts against accidental touching.
When using the charger i first place the charger on its spot on the passenger footpeg, then connect the 230V lead to the onboard charger, then connect the Brown anderson connector to the AUX charging port on the bike and then plug in the mennekes plug. Upon activation of the EV station the onboard charger starts up quick enough to engage the contactor before the flatpacks start to apply their charge.

[remmie]

Hey remmie,

my flatpacks are shipped (got three of them on ebay) and I’m preparing to build my own fast charger. So I have a few more questions:

1. Did you use diodes in between the rectifiers to prevent reverse currents?

2. You’re now sending CAN messages frequently to set voltage and current instead of making changes permanent. But you also wrote that you’re only able to connect one rectifier at a time to the CAN-Bus because otherwise you would send 48V to the CAN. Did you solve this problem somehow?

3. Do you adjust voltage during charging or is this happening automatically? Like when you start charging pack voltage is somewhere around 96V and then slowly rises. Do the flatpacks send 114V no matter at what SOC you are or are they dropping automatically to the voltage required?

4. I’m currently looking for an Arduino board. There are a few copy’s out there which seem to have same specs but are far cheaper. Do you recommend buying an original one or might the fake also work well?

5. Do you or anyone else know how the auxiliary contacts in the auxiliary charge port are work to close the contactor? Which voltage do they use? Just wondering in case I want to charge without the onboard charger one day.

6. Is your Type 2 plug actually the one which is sold on amazon?

Thank you very much,

Lenny

1. No i did not use diodes INBETWEEN them. They have O ring diodes internally already.
I did place reverse current diode ACROSS each output (inside the flatpack) for extra protection. I used Schottky-diode IXYS DSA70C150HB TO 247 I(F) 2 x 35 A which i placed inside the housing.

2. It is not necessary to keep sending the commands for voltage and current frequently. They can be used 'passively' if you have set them to the desired end-voltage.
I just use the display for readout and it is only connected to 1 of the flatpacks.

3. see #2. They operate just fine when the pack is only at 96V, they give maximum current (or maximum power) up to 114 Volt and then taper the current down until the pack reaches this 114 Volt. It is exactly what they are designed for (keeping a battery set for a telecom station charged at the correct voltage)

4. Normally it would not matter if you use a clone or an original. But i highly recommend the Leonardo CAN-bus board as this has everything on a single and very small board, including the CAN-controller which otherwise would have to be purchased seperately. search "leonardo can-bus"  on google. !! I do NOT have any affiliation with this shop whatsoever !! i just like the board they sell.

5. I think it is a 100 kilo ohm resistor to B+ but since i use the onboard for additional charging and engaging the contactor i have not investigated this. I think tehere is a thread about it on the forum.

6. no i got mine from : http://www.laadkabelwinkel.nl/componenten

[Lenny]

Hey remmie,

thanks a lot for all your replies so far. I’m getting the last components right now so I can work on the charger during Christmas holidays. There are a few questions remaining for me:

1. Which accessory parts do I need for the Anderson connectors? Only the silver plated primary power contacts?

2. Why do you use a max voltage of 114V instead of the possible 115,2V? It’s because you don’t want to charge with high currents on high SOC’s?

3. Don’t you have your button anymore to adjust the current? So you just set the voltage to 57V permanently on each flatpack and current is always at maximum/tapering down on high SOC? I guess I’ll want to adjust the current on my setup as it will be used for a FXS 6.5 and maybe on a single 230V socket sometimes.

4. Can’t I connect two parallel rectifiers to the CAN at the same time? Because they would share the same – potential for the CAN. Like that, I would be able to control the total current with the other two (each wired in series to one of the CAN-connected) following passively.

5. Which voltage does the Leonardo board need and where do you get in from? Did you take it from inside the rectifier or did you use a small dc-dc converter?

6. Do you think this display is suitable?
https://www.amazon.de/niceeshop-Arduino-Basierend-Beliebten-Controller/dp/B00MODAKM4/ref=pd_sim_107_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=17M9NH1Z9KPRFECA6YXT

7. Do you use a switch in line with the diode and 880hm connector to disconnect the Type2-plug from the charging station as shown in the specs?

8. Do you use one diode for each rectifier? Is my wiring proposal correct? Find a pic attached.

Anything else I need to know?

Thanks a lot for your help :-)

[remmie]

Hey remmie,

thanks a lot for all your replies so far. I’m getting the last components right now so I can work on the charger during Christmas holidays. There are a few questions remaining for me:

1. Which accessory parts do I need for the Anderson connectors? Only the silver plated primary power contacts?

2. Why do you use a max voltage of 114V instead of the possible 115,2V? It’s because you don’t want to charge with high currents on high SOC’s?

3. Don’t you have your button anymore to adjust the current? So you just set the voltage to 57V permanently on each flatpack and current is always at maximum/tapering down on high SOC? I guess I’ll want to adjust the current on my setup as it will be used for a FXS 6.5 and maybe on a single 230V socket sometimes.

4. Can’t I connect two parallel rectifiers to the CAN at the same time? Because they would share the same – potential for the CAN. Like that, I would be able to control the total current with the other two (each wired in series to one of the CAN-connected) following passively.

5. Which voltage does the Leonardo board need and where do you get in from? Did you take it from inside the rectifier or did you use a small dc-dc converter?

6. Do you think this display is suitable?
https://www.amazon.de/niceeshop-Arduino-Basierend-Beliebten-Controller/dp/B00MODAKM4/ref=pd_sim_107_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=17M9NH1Z9KPRFECA6YXT

7. Do you use a switch in line with the diode and 880hm connector to disconnect the Type2-plug from the charging station as shown in the specs?

8. Do you use one diode for each rectifier? Is my wiring proposal correct? Find a pic attached.

Anything else I need to know?

Thanks a lot for your help :-)

Hi Lenny.

1. I indeed only used the power pins. I use 1 of the three phases of 230V to open the contactor.

2. I just followed the common practice on this forum of (fast) charging to 114V and let the onboard take care of the last bit.

3. I do have the button to adjust the current if i would want to. The voltage is set permanently to 57.0 Volts.

4. I guess you could. Just be sure that you use the " bottom" 2 flatpacks (where the - output of the flatpack is connected to bat-)

5.  the leonardo board uses a SPX3819 voltage regulator. thats a 5V output low drop voltage regulator. it needs anything between 5.5 and 16 Volt. I used a 36-72 volt input to 5 v output DC-DC converter to power the board and connected it to the 5V input terminals.

6.  i think so.

7. Yes, i use a switch in series. Otherwise the EVstation won't release the plug



8. I used a dual diode in one housing (IXYS DSA70C150HB) which is a 2x35A schottky diode. It fits nicely inside the housing of the Flatpack S against the side. That way it doesn't disrupt airflow through the unit.

[Lenny]

Hi Lenny.

1. I indeed only used the power pins. I use 1 of the three phases of 230V to open the contactor.

2. I just followed the common practice on this forum of (fast) charging to 114V and let the onboard take care of the last bit.

3. I do have the button to adjust the current if i would want to. The voltage is set permanently to 57.0 Volts.

4. I guess you could. Just be sure that you use the " bottom" 2 flatpacks (where the - output of the flatpack is connected to bat-)

5.  the leonardo board uses a SPX3819 voltage regulator. thats a 5V output low drop voltage regulator. it needs anything between 5.5 and 16 Volt. I used a 36-72 volt input to 5 v output DC-DC converter to power the board and connected it to the 5V input terminals.

6.  i think so.

7. Yes, i use a switch in series. Otherwise the EVstation won't release the plug

8. I used a dual diode in one housing (IXYS DSA70C150HB) which is a 2x35A schottky diode. It fits nicely inside the housing of the Flatpack S against the side. That way it doesn't disrupt airflow through the unit.

Thanks :-) To clarify a few things:

3. So you're still working with a switch which connects the Leonardo board to the CAN of always just one of the four flatpacks at the same time?

4. Ok. So I'll try that, hoping not to burn anything ;-)

5. With the usual flatpacks you used the 12V of the fan right? Doesn't work with the flatpack S anymore? DC/DC converter is parallel to one of the flatpacks?

8. I already found the diodes you mentioned, will order them as well. But my wiring proposal is correct?

Happy to commence with fast charging soon :-)

[Lenny]

 Finished my prototype today and did a short test with it. Works fine :-)

It's basically all the same with remmie's, just a few details are different. Used breakout boards sold on endless-sphere for the rectifiers instead of direct soldering to avoid any permanent modification to them apart from the default voltage setting. Arduino code for testing was very simple, but voltage and current regulation works fine.

Test was on my FXS, that's why I just used two rectifiers. Charge Fuse appears to be 60 or 70 A on those models, so less charging power recommended ;-)

Started at about 43% SOC, stopped at around 95%. Needed roughly 45 min, I didn't measure precisely. Current reduction started at about 85% SOC, tappers down quite fast then. No problems at all besides the fact that cell voltage difference is very high during charging, so a balancing with the onboard charger seems to be a good idea from time to time.

Rectifiers made a funny "clicking" and "buzzing" noise under high current, are yours doing the same remmie? Also the yellow warning LED came up from the beginning and shut down when tapering down begann, guess that's a "current limit reached warning" or something like that right?

Things to be done:
-display integration with live coverage of charging data
-buttons for charge current and other adjustments
-230VAC/5VDC supply for Leonardo board and display

Further Ideas:
-some sort of housing for weather protection
-measurement of input voltage and current for additional features an protection
-enhanced PWM communication to limit charge current to the max. of the chargepoint
-6 piece FlatpackS charger with direct controller connection built into the motorcycle if my dad decides to buy a 13kWh model

Might still take some time to do all of this, need to write a few exams soon

Thanks a lot for the amazing work you have done and to share it with us remmie, wouldn't been able to accomplish this on my own!

[skoleskibe]

Finished my prototype today and did a short test with it. Works fine :-)

It's basically all the same with remmie's, just a few details are different. Used breakout boards sold on endless-sphere for the rectifiers instead of direct soldering to avoid any permanent modification to them apart from the default voltage setting. Arduino code for testing was very simple, but voltage and current regulation works fine.

Test was on my FXS, that's why I just used two rectifiers. Charge Fuse appears to be 60 or 70 A on those models, so less charging power recommended ;-)

Started at about 43% SOC, stopped at around 95%. Needed roughly 45 min, I didn't measure precisely. Current reduction started at about 85% SOC, tappers down quite fast then. No problems at all besides the fact that cell voltage difference is very high during charging, so a balancing with the onboard charger seems to be a good idea from time to time.

Rectifiers made a funny "clicking" and "buzzing" noise under high current, are yours doing the same remmie? Also the yellow warning LED came up from the beginning and shut down when tapering down begann, guess that's a "current limit reached warning" or something like that right?

Things to be done:
-display integration with live coverage of charging data
-buttons for charge current and other adjustments
-230VAC/5VDC supply for Leonardo board and display

Further Ideas:
-some sort of housing for weather protection
-measurement of input voltage and current for additional features an protection
-enhanced PWM communication to limit charge current to the max. of the chargepoint
-6 piece FlatpackS charger with direct controller connection built into the motorcycle if my dad decides to buy a 13kWh model

Might still take some time to do all of this, need to write a few exams soon

Thanks a lot for the amazing work you have done and to share it with us remmie, wouldn't been able to accomplish this on my own!

Link to the breakout boards sold on ES ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lenny]

Link to the breakout boards sold on ES ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here you go: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=83288

Just follow the thread, you'll see a pic of the breakout board. Usually sold with XT60 connectors. I decided just to get the bare PCB, although the XT60 seem quite good. Maybe I'll use them for the next one. Send him a PM with your wishes.

If you need a Flatpack 2HE, please let me know. I've one for sale, bought three of them originally, but will stay with two for now with my FXS, as I don't want to modify the charge fuse.

[Fred]

I am about to start on a similar 2 x Flatpack2HE fast charger - despite the fact that my FXS is still at the dealer waiting to be registered! I've got a couple of questions (mainly for Lenny and remmie) if you don't mind.

1. How do you use the fast charger along with the on-board as far as managing in-rush current, pre-charging capacitors, opening contactors, etc. I would assume that you connect the fast charger to the bike (unpowered) then power on the standard charger first and fast charger next.

2. I assume that once the battery reaches 114V that the fast charger continues producing 114V but no current is being drawn. Is this just left this way until you walk up and switch it off? Can you see any point in monitoring and powering the fast charger off (via relay on main input) once it's no longer being used.

3. Has anyone bothered using an isolated can transceiver like TI ISO1050 to monitor both packs? Getting a 5V supply relative to CAN ground would be necessary though. I was also wondering if it would be possible to just use a couple of optoisolators on the CAN output. Once the voltage is permanently set the CAN communication would be one way so might should be possible.

4. All that output current through those PCB traces makes me nervous. I'm thinking of milling out that space on the PCB and having a solid copper insert held in there instead. I've got a CNC mill so could make some inserts out of 1.5mm copper sheet. Could probably get away with thinner copper on the rest of the PCB then too. Any thoughts on this?

5. Does 8 AWG feel about right for the high current feed to Anderson connectors? It's for a FXS if that matters.

Thanks for all the work on this that you and others on endless sphere have done. It's great.

[remmie]

I am about to start on a similar 2 x Flatpack2HE fast charger - despite the fact that my FXS is still at the dealer waiting to be registered! I've got a couple of questions (mainly for Lenny and remmie) if you don't mind.

1. How do you use the fast charger along with the on-board as far as managing in-rush current, pre-charging capacitors, opening contactors, etc. I would assume that you connect the fast charger to the bike (unpowered) then power on the standard charger first and fast charger next.

I First connect the aux charger with the Anderson connector, then connect the onboard on the side (or the other way around, it doesn't really matter as both are unpowered. I then connect the 230V side of both the onboard and the flatpacks simultaneously. The flatpacks take a few seconds to power up. The onboard charger has enough time in those few seconds to pre-charge and engage the contractor.


2. I assume that once the battery reaches 114V that the fast charger continues producing 114V but no current is being drawn. Is this just left this way until you walk up and switch it off? Can you see any point in monitoring and powering the fast charger off (via relay on main input) once it's no longer being used.

You're correct, The ORing diodes in the flatpack make sure that there is no back flow of current as the onboard charges beyond 114V. I really can't see any point in powering the fast chargers off at this point. I just leave them connected.


3. Has anyone bothered using an isolated can transceiver like TI ISO1050 to monitor both packs? Getting a 5V supply relative to CAN ground would be necessary though. I was also wondering if it would be possible to just use a couple of optoisolators on the CAN output. Once the voltage is permanently set the CAN communication would be one way so might should be possible.

I didn't bother. Just monitoring the bottom charger is enough for me. If you use the same power supplies the top one will do exactly the same as the bottom one.



4. All that output current through those PCB traces makes me nervous. I'm thinking of milling out that space on the PCB and having a solid copper insert held in there instead. I've got a CNC mill so could make some inserts out of 1.5mm copper sheet. Could probably get away with thinner copper on the rest of the PCB then too. Any thoughts on this?

I didn't use a PCB I stuck the wires in the contacts of the flatpack and soldered them to the contacts.

5. Does 8 AWG feel about right for the high current feed to Anderson connectors? It's for a FXS if that matters.

I use 8 AWG for my 7.2 kW charger (4x 1.8 kW) so for 2x 2 kw it should be more than sufficient

Thanks for all the work on this that you and others on endless sphere have done. It's great.

[wijnand71]

I am about to start on a similar 2 x Flatpack2HE fast charger - despite the fact that my FXS is still at the dealer waiting to be registered! I've got a couple of questions (mainly for Lenny and remmie) if you don't mind.

1. How do you use the fast charger along with the on-board as far as managing in-rush current, pre-charging capacitors, opening contactors, etc. I would assume that you connect the fast charger to the bike (unpowered) then power on the standard charger first and fast charger next.

2. I assume that once the battery reaches 114V that the fast charger continues producing 114V but no current is being drawn. Is this just left this way until you walk up and switch it off? Can you see any point in monitoring and powering the fast charger off (via relay on main input) once it's no longer being used.

3. Has anyone bothered using an isolated can transceiver like TI ISO1050 to monitor both packs? Getting a 5V supply relative to CAN ground would be necessary though. I was also wondering if it would be possible to just use a couple of optoisolators on the CAN output. Once the voltage is permanently set the CAN communication would be one way so might should be possible.

4. All that output current through those PCB traces makes me nervous. I'm thinking of milling out that space on the PCB and having a solid copper insert held in there instead. I've got a CNC mill so could make some inserts out of 1.5mm copper sheet. Could probably get away with thinner copper on the rest of the PCB then too. Any thoughts on this?

5. Does 8 AWG feel about right for the high current feed to Anderson connectors? It's for a FXS if that matters.

Thanks for all the work on this that you and others on endless sphere have done. It's great.

Hi Fred,
We're in the same proces. I hope to finish my prototype this week containing 2 used flat packs 2HE2000, previously used by Remmie. But still waiting for parts. I try to answer with my knowledge so far:
1 connect both and switch power on, the flatpacks run in in 60 seconds, enough time to close the contactor
2 just leave it plugged until you pick up the bike again. For me I use it as a charger on my work space. Overnight at home I use just the onboard and let the pack proper balance
3 not really necessary, if you reduce the current of one flat pack, the other has to follow, since they are in series. I connect just the flatpack wich is connected to the battery - to the CAN bus. There's communication back and forth though; I readout the current, voltage and temperature wich shows on the display. I also can change the current of the charger so I match the power socket to wich I'm connected to. Mennkes or a 16A household source.
4 me too, I've got mine already soldered by Remmie. He managed to solder the wires inside the flatpach on the inside back connections. Also this pcb takes up too much space.
5 sounds great, 8awg is about 10mm2. Don't make it too long. 1,5m should be fine. I just place the charger next to the bike to keep these wires short

I will post my version of the Remmie Charger and a how to when it is publishable.

[Fred]

Thanks for the replies, guys. So essentially it's "stick a constant voltage in through the accessory charging port and don't worry about it". The electronics geek in me still wants to add more but it's nice to know that Zero are taking care of the important stuff.

I assume there isn't any official information about what you should and shouldn't be doing with the port - other than "use an approved charger".

[wijnand71]

Thanks for the replies, guys. So essentially it's "stick a constant voltage in through the accessory charging port and don't worry about it". The electronics geek in me still wants to add more but it's nice to know that Zero are taking care of the important stuff.

Just plug the onboard charger, the Anderson from the FlatPacks and then apply power to both at the same time. The Flatpacks run slowly (60s, thats in the code) in and the current is also fading in. The contactor closes after a few seconds so this runs elegantely.
For finishing charging, unplug the common mains first and then the anderson and onboard cables. When disconnected, It takes the Flatpacks a rough minute to drain the high DC voltage to zero on the Anderson output connector. So take care here.