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[swiftsam]

I looked out my window this morning and my bike was there in the rain with the headlight on. At first I thought I must have left the keys in it overnight, but the keys were in my pocket.

The headlight, tail light, and dash are stuck in an "on" state even when the ignition is in in the OFF position with keys removed. It got into this state while parked. Nothing abnormal on the last ride, 36 hours earlier.  When I turn it on, the boot up is a little strange, but it gets to a normal state and I've ridden around a bit without any unusual behavior.

Video of the above


I guess I've just got a severe case of "Dash Flicker"?
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Dash_Flicker

Anyone have any ideas on
 - how to keep anything from additional damage
 - how long it will take the headlight to deplete ~5 kWH
 - whether sitting back and hoping it dries out is my best / only option

[DonTom]

I looked out my window this morning and my bike was there in the rain with the headlight on. At first I thought I must have left the keys in it overnight, but the keys were in my pocket.

The headlight, tail light, and dash are stuck in an "on" state even when the ignition is in in the OFF position with keys removed. It got into this state while parked. Nothing abnormal on the last ride, 36 hours earlier.  When I turn it on, the boot up is a little strange, but it gets to a normal state and I've ridden around a bit without any unusual behavior.


I guess I've just got a severe case of "Dash Flicker"?
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Dash_Flicker

Anyone have any ideas on
 - how to keep anything from additional damage
 - how long it will take the headlight to deplete ~5 kWH
 - whether sitting back and hoping it dries out is my best / only option

Were there any indications on your screen? My first thought was the contactor was stuck closed. I don't see how  the DC-DC converter can get any juice any other way to operate your 12 volt lights. But the ignition switch could be flaky leaving the contactor stuck closed.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[togo]

I think moisture got into your keyhole, and it's making electrical contact like it does when you turn the key. Try packing desiccant around it and sealing it up for a few hours. There packs that come with computers and TVs/monitors. If that doesn't fix it, look for corrosion.

[Richard230]

I think moisture got into your keyhole, and it's making electrical contact like it does when you turn key. Try packig desiccant around it and sealing it up for a few hours. If that doesn't fix it, look for corrosion.

How about giving the switch a blow drier treatment, followed up by a squirt of WD40.  Also try that with the handlebar switches and verify that the kill switch is functioning correctly. If that doesn't work, I would blow dry the entire bike and set it in the sun to dry out.  If none of that works, it is likely that at least one of the wire connectors in your bike is corroded and you might have to start pulling things apart and putting them back together again until the problem goes away.  If you do that be careful that you don't bend any of the little connector pins when reconnecting the wires.

[Curt]

What did you end up doing?

I'd also suspect the key switch is shorting out, but only if you can drive around without the key. I think the switch just sends a signal to the MBB, which in turns enables the entire bike, not just parts of it.

Otherwise, I'd guess some other connector has water in it. Open all connectors and spray contact cleaner or WD-40 into them.

Download the logs and parse them on that website. A log entry is made every time the key is switched on or off.

[swiftsam]

Thanks for the replies and consensus on the theory. The lights are still on. It sat in the partly-sun all day and I hit everywhere I could (including in the key hole) with compressed air. Didn't have any WD on hand but will get some tomorrow.

The bike is not actually on without the key, just the lights and dash. The dash seems to be lights on but not indicating the bike computer is on. My escalation plan is WD-40 --> read logs for clues --> taking things apart.

[Curt]

Wow, that's a long time for it to sit with the lights on! There is a risk the lights will melt something or burn reflector material off the inside of the headlight housing. Maybe pull the MBB and DC/DC fuses in the mean time to turn it off. I think they would be large high-voltage 4 amp fuses. It would be interesting to know which of the fuses turns it off... I'd bet either. Be careful when poking around the high voltage stuff. There is high voltage at the MBB connector too.

At least your horn and blinkers should work whenever the headlights are on.

I believe what you're seeing is not the keyswitch, but water and/or corrosion in the MBB1 connector. The DC/DC converter is being enabled by a signal from the MBB, and it is powering the 12V sections of the bike, even though the MBB itself is not enabled. The high voltage power input on the MBB1 connector is right near the DC/DC enable output pin.

It could also be a bad MBB, but your bike works (almost normally?) when keyed on.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I did not notice this thread, because I was recovering from another restorative surgery.

This is the relevant article on the unofficial manual:
- https://zeromanual.com/wiki/12V_Power_Always_On

I hope this has been resolved somehow. Time to discharge (in hours) = Battery Capacity (in kWh) * 1000 (W/kW) / Power Drain (in W)


For an 11.4kWh pack at 100%, that's 11400Wh / 55W = ~200 hours or 8 days.

[DonTom]

I did not notice this thread, because I was recovering from another restorative surgery.

This is the relevant article on the unofficial manual:
- https://zeromanual.com/wiki/12V_Power_Always_On

How is it possible for the DC to DC converter to be the problem when the key is removed?

It will have no power into the DC to DC converter, meaning it cannot have any output, meaning something is forcing the DC to DC converter left on, proving the problem cannot be the DC to DC converter itself.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

Depends on where the switch to turn on the DC to DC board is.  It's told to turn off, but if it doesn't turn off when told to... It still has its own power.

-Crissa

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The DC to DC converter is powered ahead of the main contactor, and enabled by the MBB via a signal line. A fault in the converter or the MBB can cause it to remain on.

[DonTom]

The DC to DC converter is powered ahead of the main contactor, and enabled by the MBB via a signal line. A fault in the converter or the MBB can cause it to remain on.

Oh, I always assumed the DC to DC converter  was after the main contactor.

Thanks  for the info.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

It probably powers the main contactor.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

It probably powers the main contactor.

-Crissa

Yeah, that would make sense. So when the key is turned on, the very first ting that happens is the DC to DC converter is turned on so it can operate the contactor as well as the lights.

Sounds like lights stuck on could be a more serious problem than I assumed, such as a flaky MBB.

-Don- Auburn, CA

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I do not think the DC-DC converter powers the main contactor, which is inside the battery and controlled by the BMS.

On key on, yes the MBB signals the DC-DC converter to enable the 12V system, but the contactors shut inside each battery at the direction of their BMS. The BMS’ initiate precharge on the main bus (for the capacitor banks in the controller) before closing the contactor.

Note that there’s an unofficial manual article detailing how to charge a battery off-bike. Aside from the enable line, there’s no power going back into the battery, and I don’t think that power drives the contactor.

If I have time, I can review my doghouse internals parts and photos to see how the contactor is driven.